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on this episode of skeptico a show about

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and how when you get it it isn't always

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what you think

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[Music]

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i have an interview coming up with the

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fantastic dean rayden who i can assure

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you 100 years from now students will be

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studying his work and in particular his

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experiments because dr dean rayden

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experimentally

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has destroyed crushed falsified to put

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it in scientific terms the long-standing

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dominant soulless paradigm that we are

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biological robots in a meaningless

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universe and if you think i'm laying it

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on a little too hard there give a listen

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to none other than joe rogan who we can

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all agree love him or hate him is one of

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the most influential media sources in

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the world today higher than anyone

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you'll see on cnn fox and msnbc i mean

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from a numbers standpoint many many more

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viewers here's joe yacking it up with

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our old friend of me michael shermer

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but if you think about it from a simple

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perspective

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the entire universe is in your brain and

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when you cease to exist the universe

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ceases to exist it's just sort of true

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by definition now he goes a little bit

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further and says you know that

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consciousness is everything and that we

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bring into existence material stuff by

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thinking about or observing it or

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whatever and here's some quantum physics

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experiments that are really spooky

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it's like okay time out you know quantum

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physics is weird and spooky

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consciousness is weird and spooky that

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doesn't mean they're connected

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so you see it now right

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you see that shermer is just wrong or

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put it in another way his claims have

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been falsified experimentally

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by none other than the work of today's

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guest dr dean rayden the spooky weird

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things with quantum physics

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are related to consciousness and we can

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show it experimentally here's a clip

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from the interview coming up with dean

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well so we're trying to connect it to

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quantum mechanics and so we've done that

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in two ways

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the first way is using a double slit

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optical system to see if you can gain

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which path information

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which is uh

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which of the two slits a photon goes

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through

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and so we've we've now done about two

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dozen such experiments and

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uh some of them worked and some of them

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don't work but if you do a meta-analysis

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across the board it looks like there's

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pretty good evidence

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that something is going on that the the

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consciousness is involved in some way in

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the quantum process

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i also want to add in the one other

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quantum oriented experiment that we more

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recently published which involved the

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use of entangled photons

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as the target of a mind matter

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interaction because he wanted to look at

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non-local mind interacting with

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non-local matter

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and did it do anything part of the

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experiment was looking at could you

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increase the strength of entanglement

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and then intentionally decrease the

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strength of entanglement the short

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answer is yeah we're able to modulate it

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but like i said at the top of the show

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paradigm change never goes exactly the

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way you think

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take dean's latest plan his biotech

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venture that seeks to jab people in the

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arm in order to change their dna of

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course to fix their brain which i

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thought were past the brain

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consciousness thing but anyways to fix

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their brain so they're not depressed so

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they don't have alzheimer's and maybe

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they're a little bit more psychic than

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they were before and maybe they're even

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a little bit more connected consciously

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more like a hive mind kind of thing so i

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wrote a story which is designed to be an

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antidote

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to

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the way that psychic phenomena are

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usually portrayed in entertainment so

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think about the invasion of the body

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snatchers and the borg and star trek and

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virtually every other example where you

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have a hive mind which is presented as

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the most horrific thing that you can

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possibly do

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and we're saying in the story no it is

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not only not horrific it is the best

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possible thing that we can do to because

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it it pulls together something which is

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already interconnected but we be we sort

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of behave in an illusory way that we're

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separate and we're not really not

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connected it is that disconnection that

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leads to the kind of madness that we're

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currently seeing in ukraine

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right you know people and literally

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shooting at each other

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and not

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appreciating the fact that at a deeper

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level everything it really is

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interconnected including us so this is

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part of the plot line and the story

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where there's a tension then between

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people who

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who in this case take a genetic

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enhancement and become a

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a group mind essentially

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everyone outside the group mind thinks

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that this is scary we need to stop that

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it's bad from inside this is the best

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thing that ever happened this is like

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the difference between

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homo sapiens and homo superior

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if we if we're going to survive we need

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to advance as a species

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and so the story is basically making the

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case that homo sapiens is dying

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and we have to we either die or we

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evolve well the evolution is going

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towards a new kind of human and if it

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needs a little genetic push to get there

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so be it

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so the question about whether or not

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this biotech is going to happen is

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really not a question at all of course

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it's going to happen maybe the best we

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can do is hope that we have the right

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scientist with his hand at the switch

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and in that way maybe we should be glad

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that dean rayden is doing this work but

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i can't help but feel we might want to

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study this one a little bit deeper and

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fortunately i can tell you i've done the

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research

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here it is

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1 12 it works on just the one primate

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one is all we need

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full cognitive recovery

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we're ready look are you sure you're not

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rushing this

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the date is clear

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we're ready stephen

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all i need is your approval for human

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trial yep that's rise of the planet of

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the apes and in this case the scientist

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with the hand on a switch is james

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franco

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think about that one for a minute

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by the way here's how that thing turns

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out

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donnie get it ready she's got stage

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we're ready to move on to the next phase

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no no no

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been absolutely no side effects

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associated with 112

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with one exception

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dean rayden is an awesome scientist we

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stand on the shoulders of giants like

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this i'm very grateful that he came on

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i'm very grateful that he was so open

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about answering all these questions

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who knows where any of this stuff is

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going to go

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and who knows what our role is in

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directing it

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stick around i have a monumental

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interview with dr dean raden coming up

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next on skeptico

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welcome to skeptica where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics i'm your host alex scarce

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and today

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boy oh boy

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what a treat what a treat for me and

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hopefully i can do a good job and make

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it a treat for you as well we have dr

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dean raiden back on skeptico i think

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almost everyone who's listening to this

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show who regularly listens to it knows

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who dean braden is

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but in case you don't

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we are talking about one of the world's

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most respected and most famous

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parapsychologists

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as in

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all time most famous all-time most

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respected

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truly groundbreaking career

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paradigm shattering science so

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it really has to be put in perspective

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his day job is as chief scientist at

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ions institute of noetic sciences

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he has a very interesting biotech thing

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going on cognogenix we're going to

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certainly want to talk about that

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and we're going to want to talk about

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what i thought we would talk about i was

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listening to an interview you recently

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did dean

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and

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at the end the guy goes hey he kind of

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is apologizing goes i'm sorry you know

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for asking you

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kind of the same questions that everyone

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asks you

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and you're like you know that's okay

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i take it as kind of a challenge kind of

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as a performance challenge to see how i

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can

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bring this information all this science

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that i've accumulated and bring it out

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in a new way or bring it out in a

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different way or shape it towards the

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audience i think i'm talking to and i

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thought you know it's such a good

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it was such an interesting response

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because

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certainly part of your career early part

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of your life was about performance and

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was about you know how do i take what

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i'm doing and bring it forth did i get

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that right in terms of what you told

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that guy well it it is true that

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i i've done now

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650 years some number like that of

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interviews

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and it takes a fair amount of time

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uh so i do it for two reasons one is to

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be able to speak in a way that virtually

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anybody can understand what i'm talking

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about so that it takes some effort to do

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that because most of the time my mind is

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inside some analysis somewhere and it's

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very technical stuff

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so

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it's very important when you're speaking

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not only to the general public but to

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other scientists

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that they can understand what you're

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talking about and that means you can't

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use jargon you can't go into heavy

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technical stuff because you know we

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can't know everything

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so i i enjoy that challenge that's the

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same challenge that i have in writing

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books

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i want the general public and everybody

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else to be able to read it and get

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something out of it

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and the other thing is it keeps me sharp

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in terms of being able to talk about

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this so sometimes even on national radio

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you hear somebody who's every other word

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is um and ah and you know and all that

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and i try not to do that and try to make

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it sound like i actually know what i'm

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00:10:22,310 --> 00:10:19,440
talking about and the moment i do start

282
00:10:23,590 --> 00:10:22,320
to use the ums and the oz it's a signal

283
00:10:25,990 --> 00:10:23,600
to me that i actually don't know what

284
00:10:26,949 --> 00:10:26,000
i'm talking about great i wish i could

285
00:10:29,350 --> 00:10:26,959
uh

286
00:10:32,069 --> 00:10:29,360
hold to that standard but i i don't

287
00:10:33,750 --> 00:10:32,079
always do it so i thought here's what i

288
00:10:36,470 --> 00:10:33,760
thought we might do is a little bit of a

289
00:10:38,069 --> 00:10:36,480
performance challenge for you

290
00:10:39,509 --> 00:10:38,079
most folks

291
00:10:40,550 --> 00:10:39,519
know you through

292
00:10:42,790 --> 00:10:40,560
these

293
00:10:45,590 --> 00:10:42,800
enormously successful books that you've

294
00:10:48,870 --> 00:10:45,600
had uh the conscious universe 1997

295
00:10:52,870 --> 00:10:48,880
harper collins entangled mine 2006 simon

296
00:10:56,230 --> 00:10:52,880
schuster super normal 2013 random house

297
00:10:57,430 --> 00:10:56,240
real magic 2018 random house amazing

298
00:10:59,030 --> 00:10:57,440
because

299
00:11:01,110 --> 00:10:59,040
they're science books by major

300
00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:01,120
publishers that's amazing enough they're

301
00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:03,120
in a field that more or less didn't

302
00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:04,880
exist before you started writing these

303
00:11:09,910 --> 00:11:07,920
books double amazing and

304
00:11:11,829 --> 00:11:09,920
at the same time even though these books

305
00:11:12,790 --> 00:11:11,839
are how a lot of people come across your

306
00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:12,800
work

307
00:11:17,910 --> 00:11:15,200
you are essentially

308
00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:17,920
what do you call it an experimentalist

309
00:11:23,990 --> 00:11:21,120
you are a scientist who observes the

310
00:11:25,829 --> 00:11:24,000
world and then can't resist the urge to

311
00:11:28,790 --> 00:11:25,839
say well how can i take that and bring

312
00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:28,800
it into my lab and see if i can make it

313
00:11:33,670 --> 00:11:31,680
work in here so i thought

314
00:11:36,630 --> 00:11:33,680
your challenge would be

315
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:36,640
to give us kind of a highlight reel

316
00:11:39,910 --> 00:11:39,040
of those four books

317
00:11:43,190 --> 00:11:39,920
and

318
00:11:45,430 --> 00:11:43,200
some of the most significant experiments

319
00:11:47,990 --> 00:11:45,440
that are somehow connected to those

320
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:48,000
books how's that for uh

321
00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:50,399
highlight real performance challenge

322
00:11:55,030 --> 00:11:52,480
yeah i could do that but i first want to

323
00:11:57,990 --> 00:11:55,040
correct you that the the field that i

324
00:12:00,550 --> 00:11:58,000
work in has been around since 1882 in a

325
00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:00,560
systematic way and they're i'm standing

326
00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:02,800
on the shoulders of giants like anybody

327
00:12:06,870 --> 00:12:04,639
working in science the

328
00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:06,880
you're always standing on history and

329
00:12:10,310 --> 00:12:08,480
and i am too and there are plenty of

330
00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:10,320
books for my colleagues who are just as

331
00:12:13,269 --> 00:12:11,440
good as mine

332
00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:13,279
i have taken a slightly different tact

333
00:12:17,829 --> 00:12:15,279
usually in writing it

334
00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:17,839
at a level which i hope most people can

335
00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:20,320
understand and sometimes other books

336
00:12:25,590 --> 00:12:24,560
tend to be more technical or denser

337
00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:25,600
so

338
00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:30,720
be talking about this stuff

339
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:33,040
so the the four books

340
00:12:36,550 --> 00:12:34,480
uh

341
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:36,560
the first one the the conscious universe

342
00:12:41,110 --> 00:12:38,720
i actually wrote when i was at princeton

343
00:12:43,829 --> 00:12:41,120
university many years ago and i wrote

344
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:43,839
like 80 of it and no book publishers

345
00:12:48,629 --> 00:12:46,800
were interested in it

346
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:48,639
probably because i wasn't an author at

347
00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:50,800
that point and nobody knew who i was and

348
00:12:54,550 --> 00:12:52,560
they didn't they didn't know what i was

349
00:12:56,629 --> 00:12:54,560
writing about

350
00:12:59,030 --> 00:12:56,639
so some years go by and then i'm at the

351
00:13:01,509 --> 00:12:59,040
university of nevada and

352
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:01,519
a piece of luck falls out of the sky and

353
00:13:05,269 --> 00:13:03,519
it was featured in an article in the new

354
00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:05,279
york times magazine

355
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:07,360
and the next day i got multiple calls

356
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:08,240
from

357
00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:09,760
a book publisher saying oh would you

358
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:11,360
ever consider writing a book and i said

359
00:13:15,350 --> 00:13:13,760
oh well i had something actually so that

360
00:13:16,790 --> 00:13:15,360
was that's how i got the conscious

361
00:13:19,269 --> 00:13:16,800
universe published

362
00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:19,279
and the point of that book was

363
00:13:31,829 --> 00:13:20,720
that

364
00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:31,839
are done they're flawed or they're fraud

365
00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:33,519
or more importantly they're not

366
00:13:36,870 --> 00:13:34,880
replicated

367
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:36,880
which is the currency of truth in

368
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:37,920
science

369
00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:39,760
well i knew that wasn't true

370
00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:42,160
so i felt i i needed to write a book

371
00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:44,480
which i could not find in the shelves

372
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:46,160
that's how all of my books are actually

373
00:13:48,870 --> 00:13:47,519
i don't want to write something that's

374
00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:48,880
just going to repeat what somebody else

375
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:50,160
says

376
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:52,560
so that first book the conscious

377
00:13:55,670 --> 00:13:54,480
universe was written as a way of

378
00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:55,680
introducing

379
00:13:59,110 --> 00:13:57,760
people and scientists

380
00:14:00,710 --> 00:13:59,120
that

381
00:14:02,629 --> 00:14:00,720
what is the history

382
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:02,639
what are the replications how do we know

383
00:14:07,910 --> 00:14:04,720
that it's replicated so it was

384
00:14:09,990 --> 00:14:07,920
introducing meta-analysis and you know

385
00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:10,000
not a very technical way but

386
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:12,320
appropriately for the time that i wrote

387
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:14,000
it the methods

388
00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:16,480
and presented one example after another

389
00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:19,120
of cases where we know that effects were

390
00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:20,480
repeated

391
00:14:25,189 --> 00:14:22,720
uh that they are replicated and overall

392
00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:25,199
of highly statistically significant even

393
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:26,880
though the magnitude of the results in

394
00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:29,279
each case is usually pretty small

395
00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:30,880
so that that was basically the point of

396
00:14:35,189 --> 00:14:32,480
that whole book

397
00:14:38,710 --> 00:14:35,199
so dean let me ask you this at that time

398
00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:38,720
what would you say experimentally

399
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:41,760
in your lab was driving you forward was

400
00:14:46,949 --> 00:14:44,079
really catching your interest the most

401
00:14:49,829 --> 00:14:46,959
at that time when that book comes out

402
00:14:51,110 --> 00:14:49,839
uh back then it would probably the most

403
00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:51,120
interesting thing to me would have been

404
00:14:56,230 --> 00:14:53,600
the presentment experiments the

405
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:56,240
unconscious physiological response to

406
00:14:59,670 --> 00:14:57,519
future events

407
00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:59,680
because it was relatively new i was

408
00:15:02,710 --> 00:15:01,440
getting really good results and i

409
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:02,720
already had some colleagues who were

410
00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:04,959
able to successfully replicate those

411
00:15:08,230 --> 00:15:06,160
effects

412
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:08,240
so that was new and i always thought

413
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:10,720
what was interesting about that work and

414
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:13,920
you just related you just referenced

415
00:15:19,269 --> 00:15:16,399
it and that is

416
00:15:21,829 --> 00:15:19,279
it pulled you deeper deeper into

417
00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:21,839
kind of being on the forefront of

418
00:15:25,030 --> 00:15:23,680
advancing i don't want to say advancing

419
00:15:28,069 --> 00:15:25,040
the scientific method because that's not

420
00:15:30,629 --> 00:15:28,079
true but but you were held to such a

421
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:30,639
standard in terms of the procedures

422
00:15:33,269 --> 00:15:32,320
you're doing controls you're doing and

423
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:33,279
in particular when you get to the

424
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:36,000
pre-sentiment stuff it was like

425
00:15:41,110 --> 00:15:39,040
how do you do a good baseline and then

426
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:41,120
how do you measure these small changes

427
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:43,040
against that good baseline and then how

428
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:45,600
do you do meta analysis and then how do

429
00:15:50,310 --> 00:15:47,600
you work on it even like the file drawer

430
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:50,320
problem all this kind of stuff that you

431
00:15:55,110 --> 00:15:52,320
know it was around and people were

432
00:15:58,790 --> 00:15:55,120
talking about in terms of science but it

433
00:16:02,069 --> 00:15:58,800
you just it was forced into i think more

434
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:02,079
of public attention in a way that

435
00:16:06,069 --> 00:16:04,320
should have really uh

436
00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:06,079
been a good lesson for science at the

437
00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:07,600
time maybe it was a good lesson i don't

438
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:09,040
know but to speak to some of that

439
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:10,240
because i think that's what you're

440
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:13,120
alluding to before

441
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:14,560
yeah one thing you learn after a while

442
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:15,920
is that people believe what they want to

443
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:16,880
believe

444
00:16:21,509 --> 00:16:19,199
and there's no evidence that you can get

445
00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:21,519
no data no amount of charts and graphs

446
00:16:24,389 --> 00:16:22,959
no amount of explanation that is going

447
00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:24,399
to change your mind

448
00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:26,240
what does change people's mind is a

449
00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:28,480
single personal experience

450
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:30,320
so that so a book is never going to do

451
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:31,600
that

452
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:33,920
so i'm appealing then to

453
00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:36,720
those of us who can apply rational

454
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:37,600
thought

455
00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:40,000
to methods which is of course what

456
00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:41,839
science is really good at it's methods

457
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:44,800
to get biases out of the way and so some

458
00:16:48,949 --> 00:16:46,720
of the biases are we want to believe

459
00:16:50,470 --> 00:16:48,959
what we want to believe and so

460
00:16:53,110 --> 00:16:50,480
how do you fix that well

461
00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:53,120
there are pretty good ways of doing that

462
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:55,440
so that's partly what the story was in

463
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:57,360
the conscious universe as well

464
00:17:01,590 --> 00:17:00,000
to be able to describe how these

465
00:17:03,749 --> 00:17:01,600
experiments are done

466
00:17:05,429 --> 00:17:03,759
and to among other things show that it's

467
00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:05,439
not like every so often somebody will

468
00:17:09,350 --> 00:17:07,120
write say well did you think of this you

469
00:17:10,710 --> 00:17:09,360
know are you redoing this and well of

470
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:10,720
course we thought of all of that it's

471
00:17:14,549 --> 00:17:12,480
like the most elementary part of running

472
00:17:16,309 --> 00:17:14,559
an experiment is to make sure the

473
00:17:17,829 --> 00:17:16,319
controls are what you think they are and

474
00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:17,839
that the statistics are right and all of

475
00:17:20,789 --> 00:17:19,360
the rest of it

476
00:17:22,870 --> 00:17:20,799
that doesn't mean that mistakes aren't

477
00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:22,880
made i mean like we we learn from

478
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:24,640
mistakes and then we don't do it again

479
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:26,959
but you look at the history many many

480
00:17:31,029 --> 00:17:28,640
decades of doing various kinds of

481
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:31,039
experiments

482
00:17:36,549 --> 00:17:34,400
are very few loopholes left in fact in

483
00:17:38,470 --> 00:17:36,559
some cases we don't have any loopholes

484
00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:38,480
that we're aware of of course there are

485
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:40,720
always the unknown unknowns

486
00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:43,200
uh that can bite you at some point

487
00:17:46,630 --> 00:17:45,520
but in some cases here we're not talking

488
00:17:47,909 --> 00:17:46,640
about

489
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:47,919
weird

490
00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:50,000
laboratory anomalies that only show up

491
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:51,679
when we do experiments

492
00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:53,520
these these experiments are devised in

493
00:17:58,230 --> 00:17:55,840
the first place to take what people

494
00:18:00,549 --> 00:17:58,240
report in their real life

495
00:18:01,990 --> 00:18:00,559
and find a way of operationalizing it in

496
00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:02,000
a controlled manner and then doing in

497
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:04,240
the laboratory so you already have a lot

498
00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:06,559
of anecdotal evidence which is

499
00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:08,400
not really the currency in science but

500
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:10,480
it does provide a way of saying

501
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:12,640
if those experiences as people describe

502
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:14,960
are real and we can put them into the

503
00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:17,360
lab and we get similar effects

504
00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:19,760
well then it probably is real so some of

505
00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:21,840
those anecdotes are exactly the way that

506
00:18:26,710 --> 00:18:23,600
people describe them

507
00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:26,720
okay so the conscious universe causes

508
00:18:30,950 --> 00:18:29,840
quite a stir again because you put it in

509
00:18:34,150 --> 00:18:30,960
very

510
00:18:36,870 --> 00:18:34,160
stark scientific terms and you got the

511
00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:36,880
goods and you deliver it you wait a few

512
00:18:44,070 --> 00:18:40,840
years and then entangled minds

513
00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:44,080
2006 how does that how does the story

514
00:18:48,390 --> 00:18:46,320
arc go from conscious universe to

515
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:48,400
entangled minds

516
00:18:51,669 --> 00:18:49,840
because the

517
00:18:54,390 --> 00:18:51,679
question i did not answer in the

518
00:18:56,310 --> 00:18:54,400
conscious universe is how does this work

519
00:18:58,070 --> 00:18:56,320
like how do we take these kinds of

520
00:18:58,870 --> 00:18:58,080
effects

521
00:19:00,549 --> 00:18:58,880
and

522
00:19:01,990 --> 00:19:00,559
show that they're compatible with our

523
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:02,000
current understanding of the physical

524
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:03,039
world

525
00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:05,200
because prior to the development

526
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:07,520
especially of quantum mechanics but also

527
00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:09,200
relativity

528
00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:11,440
it was easy to dismiss these effects

529
00:19:15,110 --> 00:19:12,640
because

530
00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:15,120
we thought that that space time matter

531
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:17,280
and energy were all absolutes in which

532
00:19:19,830 --> 00:19:18,240
case

533
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:19,840
how could you perceive something that

534
00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:22,000
was far away from you it was it was

535
00:19:25,110 --> 00:19:23,840
considered impossible and there's still

536
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:25,120
people today

537
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:26,960
including academics who say it's

538
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:28,960
impossible because that's not the way

539
00:19:32,789 --> 00:19:30,640
the physical world works

540
00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:32,799
well they're wrong and so

541
00:19:37,909 --> 00:19:36,000
the the entangled minds i wrote in

542
00:19:40,230 --> 00:19:37,919
response to questions i had gotten about

543
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:40,240
how how could this possibly fit with our

544
00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:43,520
current understanding of physics

545
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:45,120
that's what that book is about so it

546
00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:46,160
goes

547
00:19:50,789 --> 00:19:48,559
moderately deeply into quantum mechanics

548
00:19:52,470 --> 00:19:50,799
and interpretations thereof

549
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:52,480
and it addresses the

550
00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:54,640
interesting parallel between

551
00:19:59,430 --> 00:19:57,200
the same thing in quantum mechanics and

552
00:20:00,549 --> 00:19:59,440
in cybersearch that are both considered

553
00:20:02,149 --> 00:20:00,559
weird

554
00:20:04,230 --> 00:20:02,159
so they both can they both involve

555
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:04,240
non-local connections through space and

556
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:05,440
time

557
00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:07,600
and they both involve something about

558
00:20:11,909 --> 00:20:10,240
the act of intention or observation in

559
00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:11,919
observing a system and having that a

560
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:14,080
system change its behavior

561
00:20:17,430 --> 00:20:15,679
and so some would say well this is a

562
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:17,440
coincidence it's a meaningless

563
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:20,400
correlation and i would say no i think

564
00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:22,480
actually what people report when they

565
00:20:27,110 --> 00:20:24,960
have these experiences is a reflection

566
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:27,120
of what we know about the physical world

567
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:28,960
because it does support those kinds of

568
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:30,559
phenomena

569
00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:32,000
nevertheless there are still papers

570
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:33,520
being published regularly mostly by

571
00:20:37,510 --> 00:20:35,360
psychologists who say that these

572
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:37,520
phenomena cannot be real

573
00:20:43,669 --> 00:20:40,400
because they violate basic scientific

574
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:43,679
ideas about the way the world works

575
00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:46,240
which is butter nonsense because it

576
00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:48,720
doesn't violate anything it's just that

577
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:50,240
we don't understand how to put all the

578
00:20:55,350 --> 00:20:52,080
pieces together yet but we're we're no

579
00:20:58,390 --> 00:20:55,360
longer in a classical physical world

580
00:20:59,990 --> 00:20:58,400
so experimentally in your lab

581
00:21:02,710 --> 00:21:00,000
what's going on

582
00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:02,720
what are you doing that

583
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:07,440
kind of relates to this entangled minds

584
00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:09,840
idea

585
00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:12,000
well so we're trying to connect it to

586
00:21:16,149 --> 00:21:13,840
quantum mechanics and so we've done that

587
00:21:17,830 --> 00:21:16,159
in two ways

588
00:21:20,310 --> 00:21:17,840
the first way is using a double slit

589
00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:20,320
optical system to see if you can gain

590
00:21:25,350 --> 00:21:23,520
which path information which is uh

591
00:21:26,230 --> 00:21:25,360
which of the two slits a photon goes

592
00:21:27,990 --> 00:21:26,240
through

593
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:28,000
if you can gain that information by any

594
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:29,200
means

595
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:30,799
so-called

596
00:21:33,190 --> 00:21:31,600
then

597
00:21:35,909 --> 00:21:33,200
you will not see an interference pattern

598
00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:35,919
you reduce the wave-like nature of light

599
00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:37,840
and you make it particulate look at that

600
00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:40,559
as a particle so you can see the the

601
00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:42,240
change very clearly by looking at the

602
00:21:45,669 --> 00:21:43,840
interference pattern that is produced by

603
00:21:47,669 --> 00:21:45,679
that kind of optical system

604
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:47,679
so we had people many of whom were

605
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:48,960
meditators

606
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:50,159
asked to

607
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:52,240
use their mind's eye

608
00:21:56,149 --> 00:21:54,240
to see if they could tell where the

609
00:21:58,390 --> 00:21:56,159
photon was going or if they found that

610
00:21:59,990 --> 00:21:58,400
too difficult and just push the photon

611
00:22:01,350 --> 00:22:00,000
intentionally so it would only go

612
00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:01,360
through one

613
00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:04,240
and so we we've now done about two dozen

614
00:22:07,909 --> 00:22:06,320
such experiments and

615
00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:07,919
uh some of them worked and some of them

616
00:22:11,830 --> 00:22:10,000
don't work but if you do a meta-analysis

617
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:11,840
across the board it looks like there's

618
00:22:15,430 --> 00:22:13,280
pretty good evidence

619
00:22:17,830 --> 00:22:15,440
that something is going on that the the

620
00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:17,840
consciousness is involved in some way in

621
00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:20,400
the quantum process

622
00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:21,760
so one of the things that kind of

623
00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:23,520
repeats itself here that is really smart

624
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:25,440
the way you did this science is like you

625
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:27,440
take the conscious universe and you take

626
00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:29,200
the pre-sentiment experiment where

627
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:30,720
there's an image flashing up on the

628
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:32,159
screen and you're

629
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:34,000
measuring the

630
00:22:37,750 --> 00:22:36,080
human interaction with that and ways

631
00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:37,760
that we can measure it eye dilation all

632
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:39,280
this different stuff

633
00:22:42,630 --> 00:22:41,039
but the reason that you set up that

634
00:22:45,029 --> 00:22:42,640
experiment that way is because they've

635
00:22:47,590 --> 00:22:45,039
been doing that experiment for freshman

636
00:22:49,669 --> 00:22:47,600
psychology students for decades and

637
00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:49,679
decades so you said hey you guys are

638
00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:52,080
familiar with this experiment right

639
00:22:56,789 --> 00:22:54,320
well you never put the alligator clips

640
00:22:59,750 --> 00:22:56,799
on this part of it and if you do it kind

641
00:23:02,230 --> 00:22:59,760
of looks different and i think that's

642
00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:02,240
very very clever way to do it and then

643
00:23:06,070 --> 00:23:03,520
with the

644
00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:06,080
double slit experiment you just blow

645
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:08,480
everything up because

646
00:23:13,990 --> 00:23:11,919
that is the experiment that has everyone

647
00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:14,000
has been danced around for a hundred

648
00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:16,559
years like no it can't really be

649
00:23:20,549 --> 00:23:18,480
consciousness is fundamental like max

650
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:20,559
planck said i mean i can't really

651
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:22,799
process that and you said okay well

652
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:25,120
let's just freshen that baby up a little

653
00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:27,600
bit too if let's look at it this way in

654
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:28,960
this way and

655
00:23:33,190 --> 00:23:30,799
is there an interference pattern and can

656
00:23:34,390 --> 00:23:33,200
meditators do it and because you did uh

657
00:23:37,510 --> 00:23:34,400
you've done

658
00:23:40,390 --> 00:23:37,520
a number of kind of variations on the

659
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:40,400
theme when it comes to

660
00:23:46,070 --> 00:23:42,640
bringing the double slit experiment and

661
00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:46,080
saying yes it really is about

662
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:47,440
consciousness

663
00:23:50,950 --> 00:23:48,880
what are some of the

664
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:50,960
variations that on that theme that

665
00:23:55,029 --> 00:23:52,559
you've done

666
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:55,039
well first of all we've created a series

667
00:23:59,990 --> 00:23:56,480
of different kinds of double slit

668
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:00,000
systems so we've used the originally

669
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:03,200
continuous beam helium neon laser

670
00:24:06,870 --> 00:24:05,360
which has certain advantages and certain

671
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:06,880
disadvantages

672
00:24:11,269 --> 00:24:09,120
we've used diode lasers continuous beam

673
00:24:13,990 --> 00:24:11,279
we've used single photon

674
00:24:16,310 --> 00:24:14,000
double slit systems each time a

675
00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:16,320
conceptual replication of the previous

676
00:24:19,990 --> 00:24:18,080
one saying if that worked and this

677
00:24:21,669 --> 00:24:20,000
probably ought to work and if this works

678
00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:21,679
that should work and so on

679
00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:24,640
each time a different kind of analysis

680
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:27,520
is required given the nature of the data

681
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:30,480
which is not completely optimal because

682
00:24:35,269 --> 00:24:32,320
before you do an experiment you're never

683
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:35,279
quite sure what the analysis should be

684
00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:37,440
especially for this kind of experiment

685
00:24:41,430 --> 00:24:40,000
so that's that's a disadvantage for for

686
00:24:42,789 --> 00:24:41,440
doing these which is why i'm still

687
00:24:44,950 --> 00:24:42,799
waiting for

688
00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:44,960
more than one other person to do a

689
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:46,960
replication because so far there's only

690
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:48,480
one replication

691
00:24:52,390 --> 00:24:50,640
which for his pilot studies were highly

692
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:52,400
significant and in the same direction

693
00:24:57,430 --> 00:24:55,200
that i saw and for his formal studies

694
00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:57,440
were not significant from a directional

695
00:25:01,029 --> 00:24:59,279
perspective but from a bi-directional

696
00:25:03,029 --> 00:25:01,039
perspective it was

697
00:25:05,430 --> 00:25:03,039
and which is what we have seen in our

698
00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:05,440
own experiments too what what this means

699
00:25:08,789 --> 00:25:07,440
is that if you

700
00:25:10,789 --> 00:25:08,799
if you imagine that you're nobody's

701
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:10,799
looking at the double subsystem you see

702
00:25:14,549 --> 00:25:13,200
a wave-like pattern you see interference

703
00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:14,559
if somebody's looking at it you can

704
00:25:18,549 --> 00:25:16,720
predict that if you can gain which path

705
00:25:20,149 --> 00:25:18,559
information you will collapse so call

706
00:25:21,669 --> 00:25:20,159
the collapse away function and it will

707
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:21,679
get a part particulate pattern a

708
00:25:26,549 --> 00:25:24,000
diffraction matter

709
00:25:28,070 --> 00:25:26,559
well a that's a directional hypothesis

710
00:25:29,350 --> 00:25:28,080
that's saying it will go from this to

711
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:29,360
this

712
00:25:33,669 --> 00:25:30,640
uh what

713
00:25:35,590 --> 00:25:33,679
my colleague had found was uh that he

714
00:25:37,029 --> 00:25:35,600
saw a significant result but sometimes

715
00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:37,039
it went in one direction and sometimes

716
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:38,880
it went in a different direction in a

717
00:25:42,789 --> 00:25:40,480
different experiment

718
00:25:45,430 --> 00:25:42,799
so we've analyzed went back and analyzed

719
00:25:46,470 --> 00:25:45,440
our data as well and we find that too

720
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:46,480
that

721
00:25:50,310 --> 00:25:48,720
between one person and the next person

722
00:25:52,070 --> 00:25:50,320
some people will make it go one way some

723
00:25:53,830 --> 00:25:52,080
will go the other way and if you use a

724
00:25:56,230 --> 00:25:53,840
variance measure

725
00:25:58,230 --> 00:25:56,240
as opposed to a mean shift you actually

726
00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:58,240
get pretty significant results that hold

727
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:59,279
up

728
00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:01,840
what this tells us is that

729
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:03,600
as usual things are never quite as

730
00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:05,840
simple as you originally think it's not

731
00:26:09,990 --> 00:26:07,440
simply that consciousness collapses the

732
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:10,000
wave function but the way i would put it

733
00:26:14,549 --> 00:26:12,320
rather is that it seems to steer

734
00:26:16,549 --> 00:26:14,559
what is going on it steers the wave

735
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:16,559
function now where else do we see that

736
00:26:20,310 --> 00:26:18,400
well we see it as the quantum zeno

737
00:26:23,430 --> 00:26:20,320
effect

738
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:23,440
you repeatedly measure a quantum system

739
00:26:27,029 --> 00:26:25,679
it will freeze its evolution

740
00:26:28,549 --> 00:26:27,039
and that sometimes it'll freeze it in

741
00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:28,559
one direction sometimes we'll freeze it

742
00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:30,240
in the other direction depends a lot and

743
00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:31,919
how fast you are

744
00:26:36,149 --> 00:26:33,440
you're measuring it

745
00:26:38,549 --> 00:26:36,159
so maybe something like that is going on

746
00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:38,559
that it's we're steering the the way

747
00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:40,640
that the photons are behaving rather

748
00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:43,200
than simply collapsing something

749
00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:44,640
i was not

750
00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:47,520
upset with that kind of a result because

751
00:26:51,430 --> 00:26:49,200
as i said that

752
00:26:52,870 --> 00:26:51,440
the reason you do an experiment is to

753
00:26:54,630 --> 00:26:52,880
see what kind of answer the universe

754
00:26:56,390 --> 00:26:54,640
will give you when you when you present

755
00:26:58,470 --> 00:26:56,400
a question

756
00:27:00,549 --> 00:26:58,480
and if you're lucky

757
00:27:02,310 --> 00:27:00,559
it will it will give you an answer which

758
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:02,320
is even more interesting than the one

759
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:04,080
that you originally asked

760
00:27:08,230 --> 00:27:06,000
in this case that is seems to be what's

761
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:08,240
happening that seems like yeah there's

762
00:27:11,909 --> 00:27:10,320
there's weird stuff going on

763
00:27:13,190 --> 00:27:11,919
which we wouldn't have known before

764
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:13,200
unless we actually went ahead and did

765
00:27:15,909 --> 00:27:15,200
the experiment

766
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:15,919
so

767
00:27:22,389 --> 00:27:20,399
supernormal comes along at 2013 and this

768
00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:22,399
is kind of a shift i'm all these are a

769
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:24,559
shift but this is kind of a shift in a

770
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:26,880
different direction what's that book

771
00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:29,360
about and then experimentally

772
00:27:33,669 --> 00:27:30,799
where you at

773
00:27:35,510 --> 00:27:33,679
2010 2013

774
00:27:38,070 --> 00:27:35,520
well i also want to add in before i go

775
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:38,080
there uh one other quantum oriented

776
00:27:41,590 --> 00:27:39,600
experiment that we more recently

777
00:27:44,470 --> 00:27:41,600
published which involved the use of

778
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:44,480
entangled photons as the target of a

779
00:27:48,630 --> 00:27:46,480
mind matter interaction because we

780
00:27:51,029 --> 00:27:48,640
wanted to look at non-local mind

781
00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:51,039
interacting with non-local matter

782
00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:53,039
and did it do anything the short answer

783
00:27:58,070 --> 00:27:56,559
is yeah we were able to modulate it

784
00:27:59,750 --> 00:27:58,080
part of the experiment was looking at

785
00:28:01,990 --> 00:27:59,760
could you increase the strength of

786
00:28:03,990 --> 00:28:02,000
entanglement and then intentionally

787
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:04,000
decrease the strength of entanglement

788
00:28:08,710 --> 00:28:06,960
well you would think a priori that

789
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:08,720
decreasing the strength of entanglement

790
00:28:12,149 --> 00:28:10,480
would be relatively easy because it's

791
00:28:14,549 --> 00:28:12,159
pretty fragile it doesn't take much to

792
00:28:17,269 --> 00:28:14,559
collapse it but what we found

793
00:28:18,549 --> 00:28:17,279
uniformly even with feedback that was

794
00:28:20,630 --> 00:28:18,559
designed to

795
00:28:23,190 --> 00:28:20,640
increase it and decrease it it only

796
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:23,200
increased the fidelity of entanglement

797
00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:25,840
increased as a result of intention

798
00:28:29,830 --> 00:28:27,440
focused on it which is really

799
00:28:31,110 --> 00:28:29,840
interesting so again that was not

800
00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:31,120
expected

801
00:28:34,870 --> 00:28:32,720
i mean we we hope we'd see something

802
00:28:37,190 --> 00:28:34,880
interesting going on but it we every

803
00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:37,200
time we get a nice surprise and a result

804
00:28:41,669 --> 00:28:39,520
like that then we think okay

805
00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:41,679
this is still worth pursuing because if

806
00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:44,080
we only ever show the results that we

807
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:45,760
expect to get well that's not so

808
00:28:49,750 --> 00:28:47,440
interesting

809
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:49,760
okay so supernova no no no i'm sorry

810
00:28:54,070 --> 00:28:52,000
because you're you're on tr you're so on

811
00:28:57,029 --> 00:28:54,080
point with that it is so

812
00:28:59,430 --> 00:28:57,039
important so if you can

813
00:29:03,110 --> 00:28:59,440
back up and break that down a little bit

814
00:29:04,470 --> 00:29:03,120
fifth grade level what is entanglement

815
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:04,480
we don't have to talk about non-local

816
00:29:09,669 --> 00:29:07,200
mind too much but the the why are you

817
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:09,679
making that connection between

818
00:29:13,990 --> 00:29:13,200
non-local mind and entanglement why does

819
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:14,000
that

820
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:15,600
resonate for you

821
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:17,039
and then

822
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:19,600
what is what is the experimental effect

823
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:21,200
again break that down in more simple

824
00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:24,080
terms in terms of what you're seeing

825
00:29:28,389 --> 00:29:26,399
and why we can read the kind of

826
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:28,399
excitement in your face and in your

827
00:29:31,350 --> 00:29:30,320
voice when you talk about

828
00:29:33,110 --> 00:29:31,360
how

829
00:29:34,710 --> 00:29:33,120
it kind of doesn't really go the way

830
00:29:36,789 --> 00:29:34,720
that you thought it really just goes in

831
00:29:38,870 --> 00:29:36,799
this one direction and i can see the

832
00:29:40,870 --> 00:29:38,880
wheels turning for you in terms of what

833
00:29:43,269 --> 00:29:40,880
that means and global consciousness

834
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:43,279
project and all the rest of this stuff

835
00:29:46,630 --> 00:29:45,039
that we're doing so

836
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:46,640
spend some time and break this down

837
00:29:51,190 --> 00:29:49,200
break that down for us if you would

838
00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:51,200
all of the experiments involving mind

839
00:29:57,269 --> 00:29:53,520
and matter are essentially asking the

840
00:29:59,510 --> 00:29:57,279
question is mind cut is it causal or put

841
00:30:02,149 --> 00:29:59,520
it in broader sense is consciousness

842
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:02,159
causal in the physical world does it

843
00:30:08,310 --> 00:30:05,520
play a role other than within the body

844
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:08,320
and so one way of thinking it is that i

845
00:30:11,830 --> 00:30:10,159
can use my intention

846
00:30:13,590 --> 00:30:11,840
and make something happen with a hundred

847
00:30:15,669 --> 00:30:13,600
percent reliability

848
00:30:18,070 --> 00:30:15,679
so i should now demonstrate that

849
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:18,080
uh right arm move up

850
00:30:22,870 --> 00:30:20,000
well it did that well it's just a mind

851
00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:22,880
matter interaction my intention

852
00:30:27,430 --> 00:30:25,120
has made something happen

853
00:30:29,510 --> 00:30:27,440
the question here though is what else

854
00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:29,520
can it do is it purely something within

855
00:30:33,110 --> 00:30:31,360
the body or does it act at a distance so

856
00:30:33,990 --> 00:30:33,120
the non-local aspect of it is saying

857
00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:34,000
that

858
00:30:38,789 --> 00:30:35,679
at a distance

859
00:30:40,310 --> 00:30:38,799
my thoughts can influence something else

860
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:40,320
and we can measure that it actually

861
00:30:43,830 --> 00:30:41,760
happened

862
00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:43,840
uh what makes it and that's that's

863
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:45,520
non-local in space

864
00:30:48,549 --> 00:30:46,799
the the other part of course is

865
00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:48,559
non-local in time and there's evidence

866
00:30:53,029 --> 00:30:51,120
that that is also possible but it makes

867
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:53,039
people's brains explode and i don't want

868
00:30:59,830 --> 00:30:57,990
so so the again the the simplest way of

869
00:31:02,470 --> 00:30:59,840
thinking of it is asking the question is

870
00:31:03,909 --> 00:31:02,480
consciousness actually causal you have

871
00:31:05,190 --> 00:31:03,919
billions of people out there who are

872
00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:05,200
praying

873
00:31:08,710 --> 00:31:07,360
that that things in ukraine will get

874
00:31:10,630 --> 00:31:08,720
better and so on

875
00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:10,640
does that do anything other than make

876
00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:12,080
you feel good

877
00:31:15,350 --> 00:31:13,600
well a lot of people believe it does do

878
00:31:17,509 --> 00:31:15,360
something either it's intercessory

879
00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:17,519
prayer with some deity or it's the

880
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:19,360
focused attention or affirmations or

881
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:20,640
whatever

882
00:31:24,789 --> 00:31:22,720
this is like in in the populist this is

883
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:24,799
the way people think so these

884
00:31:28,710 --> 00:31:26,399
experiments are looking at that

885
00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:28,720
sometimes at a much more macroscopic

886
00:31:33,430 --> 00:31:30,640
level like seeing if we can affect the

887
00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:33,440
structure of water water molecule

888
00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:35,279
structure which we've done

889
00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:37,200
or many many other kinds of targets and

890
00:31:40,549 --> 00:31:38,720
the reason why you go down into the

891
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:40,559
quantum scale is partially because

892
00:31:44,549 --> 00:31:43,120
there's a little door opened that says a

893
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:44,559
there's a non-local things happening

894
00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:46,559
which is interesting sounds like psychic

895
00:31:48,310 --> 00:31:47,440
stuff

896
00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:48,320
and

897
00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:50,799
because of this this peculiarity which

898
00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:52,799
you don't see in classical physics which

899
00:31:56,389 --> 00:31:54,960
is that observation matters

900
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:56,399
well of course

901
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:58,080
from a physics perspective you say well

902
00:32:02,230 --> 00:32:00,240
no it's just about measurement well what

903
00:32:03,990 --> 00:32:02,240
is measurement is it about knowing

904
00:32:05,909 --> 00:32:04,000
what's happening or is it about an

905
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:05,919
irreversible process there's lots of

906
00:32:10,710 --> 00:32:08,559
discussion about what that means

907
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:10,720
for for those of us who

908
00:32:15,909 --> 00:32:13,120
are interested more in

909
00:32:18,310 --> 00:32:15,919
in large scale effects like i have here

910
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:18,320
where do we have it yet

911
00:32:23,350 --> 00:32:21,039
so i bent the spoon so here's a large

912
00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:23,360
soup spoon which somehow

913
00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:26,960
i i bent and as other people have said

914
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:29,360
that it feels like taffy momentarily and

915
00:32:33,029 --> 00:32:31,120
then you just squish it it didn't take

916
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:33,039
any force really other than just sort of

917
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:34,799
pushing it over

918
00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:36,960
well i've tried many ways to see if i

919
00:32:40,549 --> 00:32:38,880
put it in boiling water will it revert

920
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:40,559
will you know does it become soft all

921
00:32:44,070 --> 00:32:43,120
those questions no it's a hard piece of

922
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:44,080
metal

923
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:46,240
so that's a macroscopic demonstration of

924
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:48,559
something going on which apparently it's

925
00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:50,720
something to do with the mind in some

926
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:52,320
way because it does if you just have a

927
00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:53,679
spoon you leave it there it doesn't do

928
00:32:59,669 --> 00:32:55,279
that

929
00:33:01,029 --> 00:32:59,679
in a laboratory we we have yet to find

930
00:33:03,509 --> 00:33:01,039
people who can do this kind of thing on

931
00:33:04,630 --> 00:33:03,519
demand like take take a bar metal like

932
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:04,640
this one

933
00:33:09,029 --> 00:33:06,960
and just bend it well we know the

934
00:33:11,110 --> 00:33:09,039
tensile force is and all the rest you

935
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:11,120
can't do that at least not by human

936
00:33:13,669 --> 00:33:12,080
force

937
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:13,679
but if somebody can do that and i've

938
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:15,200
seen pictures of people taking things

939
00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:16,559
like rebars

940
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:18,640
and just going

941
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:20,880
well that should be impossible but it

942
00:33:24,389 --> 00:33:22,080
happened

943
00:33:26,950 --> 00:33:24,399
so we go into the lab and we we try to

944
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:26,960
figure out what what does this mean for

945
00:33:31,590 --> 00:33:29,840
our understanding of the physical world

946
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:31,600
in quantum mechanics in particular for

947
00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:34,559
the entangled photons experiment

948
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:35,919
here we're talking about one of the

949
00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:38,480
fundamental aspects maybe as schrodinger

950
00:33:42,389 --> 00:33:39,600
said the

951
00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:42,399
fundamental aspect of quantum mechanics

952
00:33:46,149 --> 00:33:43,919
is the idea that when you have two

953
00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:46,159
particles that interact and they go on

954
00:33:49,269 --> 00:33:48,000
their merry way that they share

955
00:33:51,990 --> 00:33:49,279
properties

956
00:33:54,389 --> 00:33:52,000
and independent of space and time so

957
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:54,399
that it's not quite right to say that if

958
00:33:57,669 --> 00:33:56,159
you take two photons or two electrons

959
00:34:00,070 --> 00:33:57,679
and you separate them you twiddle one

960
00:34:02,149 --> 00:34:00,080
the other one will respond that's that's

961
00:34:04,549 --> 00:34:02,159
not quite right but it's close

962
00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:04,559
and and the idea is that they

963
00:34:08,950 --> 00:34:06,640
they're not independent anymore they

964
00:34:11,669 --> 00:34:08,960
share properties through space and

965
00:34:13,990 --> 00:34:11,679
through time so that has been

966
00:34:14,869 --> 00:34:14,000
first predicted and then after many

967
00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:14,879
years

968
00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:17,280
verified in the lab and now

969
00:34:20,950 --> 00:34:19,359
it's being used experimentally for

970
00:34:22,950 --> 00:34:20,960
communications and cryptography and

971
00:34:24,550 --> 00:34:22,960
things like that so it's it's a real

972
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:24,560
thing in fact quantum computers would

973
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:26,560
not work unless that was true

974
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:28,560
so so you have a couple points i just

975
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:30,159
want to make sure people understand so

976
00:34:35,669 --> 00:34:33,119
you can create this quantum modem kind

977
00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:35,679
of thing and you can do this thing and

978
00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:37,520
you can see demonstrations of it i think

979
00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:39,040
china is kind of maybe ahead of the game

980
00:34:43,510 --> 00:34:40,960
a little bit on that although who knows

981
00:34:45,030 --> 00:34:43,520
who's ahead of what game but there is

982
00:34:47,109 --> 00:34:45,040
you know for people who need the

983
00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:47,119
engineering kind of proof of it there it

984
00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:48,800
is it kind of works and it kind of does

985
00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:50,480
it and it's using

986
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:52,639
these same principles

987
00:34:57,430 --> 00:34:55,280
so again what you do the trick that you

988
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:57,440
do is you say okay

989
00:35:02,310 --> 00:34:59,760
you guys unknowingly have opened the

990
00:35:05,109 --> 00:35:02,320
door i like the way you said that before

991
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:05,119
let me step all the way through and by

992
00:35:08,550 --> 00:35:06,640
the way i'm gonna bring some of my

993
00:35:10,230 --> 00:35:08,560
friends here some of my friends who are

994
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:10,240
meditators and say oh yeah we can do

995
00:35:13,589 --> 00:35:12,160
that and some of my friends who are just

996
00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:13,599
people off the street that says hey i'll

997
00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:15,680
give it a try and now

998
00:35:18,069 --> 00:35:17,040
they're

999
00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:18,079
getting

1000
00:35:24,870 --> 00:35:21,040
into this thing at a level that

1001
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:24,880
just kind of blows everyone up right so

1002
00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:27,280
kind of make connect some of those dots

1003
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:30,720
that i'm loosely throwing around there

1004
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:32,240
well it go all the way back to max

1005
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:34,000
planck who came up with the idea of the

1006
00:35:39,030 --> 00:35:37,040
quantum and most of his contemporaries

1007
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:39,040
at the time they were idealists

1008
00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:40,880
philosophical idealists so they they

1009
00:35:45,190 --> 00:35:43,599
felt that consciousness was fundamental

1010
00:35:48,069 --> 00:35:45,200
they came up with the idea of quantum

1011
00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:48,079
mechanics so if you we marry together

1012
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:50,000
the underlying philosophy of the

1013
00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:51,920
founders of quantum mechanics with the

1014
00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:54,880
phenomena themselves then it it almost

1015
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:56,720
becomes obvious that if consciousness is

1016
00:36:01,430 --> 00:35:58,800
really fundamental it should be able to

1017
00:36:04,069 --> 00:36:01,440
do something with these quantum systems

1018
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:04,079
so that's i mean this is not genius here

1019
00:36:07,430 --> 00:36:06,160
it is it's kind of it presents itself

1020
00:36:09,510 --> 00:36:07,440
immediately

1021
00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:09,520
and you do find occasionally some

1022
00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:11,200
mainstream physicists saying oh wouldn't

1023
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:13,440
it be interesting to test these kinds of

1024
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:15,839
ideas maybe somebody somebody will do

1025
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:17,680
that maybe it has a two percent chance

1026
00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:19,119
of working

1027
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:21,359
well you know okay we've already done

1028
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:23,280
that

1029
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:25,200
so the second reason then for doing an

1030
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:26,880
experiment involving entanglement in

1031
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:28,320
particular

1032
00:36:33,589 --> 00:36:30,880
is because

1033
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:33,599
entanglement you it we we think of

1034
00:36:37,270 --> 00:36:35,440
something as entangled or not entangled

1035
00:36:38,790 --> 00:36:37,280
but it's not binary you have a whole

1036
00:36:40,710 --> 00:36:38,800
bunch of classical systems where

1037
00:36:42,069 --> 00:36:40,720
particles really are separate so they

1038
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:42,079
might be correlated but they're not

1039
00:36:45,670 --> 00:36:43,920
connected at all and their properties

1040
00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:45,680
are completely independent in the

1041
00:36:51,190 --> 00:36:48,240
quantum world the properties

1042
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:51,200
are are there and there's some kind of a

1043
00:36:55,750 --> 00:36:53,440
correlation going on which is stronger

1044
00:36:57,349 --> 00:36:55,760
than classical correlations so we can

1045
00:36:59,430 --> 00:36:57,359
talk about this in terms of the strength

1046
00:37:01,750 --> 00:36:59,440
of the correlation

1047
00:37:03,510 --> 00:37:01,760
but that's not a constant it's it varies

1048
00:37:06,390 --> 00:37:03,520
all over the place it goes from just

1049
00:37:10,069 --> 00:37:06,400
barely above classical which is kind of

1050
00:37:11,829 --> 00:37:10,079
a weak correlation to very strong

1051
00:37:13,270 --> 00:37:11,839
but there's an upper limit

1052
00:37:15,109 --> 00:37:13,280
and the upper limit according to

1053
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:15,119
orthodox quantum mechanics today is

1054
00:37:19,109 --> 00:37:17,280
called the cyrelsin bound so this is

1055
00:37:21,510 --> 00:37:19,119
named after a russian mathematician

1056
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:21,520
called boris cyrelsin who came up with

1057
00:37:25,190 --> 00:37:23,280
the idea that mathematically there

1058
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:25,200
should be an upper limit to how strong

1059
00:37:28,630 --> 00:37:27,119
this entanglement can get

1060
00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:28,640
and so there were many experiments to

1061
00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:30,960
see could you go past that

1062
00:37:34,150 --> 00:37:32,800
because if you could it would mean that

1063
00:37:36,310 --> 00:37:34,160
the current formulation of quantum

1064
00:37:39,109 --> 00:37:36,320
mechanics is incomplete of course that

1065
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:39,119
would be that's earth shattering

1066
00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:40,800
people getting very very close to it

1067
00:37:45,510 --> 00:37:42,800
with very sensitive equipment but no one

1068
00:37:46,710 --> 00:37:45,520
has surpassed it yet so we thought okay

1069
00:37:48,069 --> 00:37:46,720
since it looks like maybe there's

1070
00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:48,079
something going on with a double sit

1071
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:50,079
system maybe we can modulate the

1072
00:37:55,030 --> 00:37:52,800
strength of entanglement and maybe even

1073
00:37:56,550 --> 00:37:55,040
push it above the cyrus and bound

1074
00:37:58,630 --> 00:37:56,560
if we could do that it would mean not

1075
00:38:00,870 --> 00:37:58,640
only is orthodox quantum mechanics

1076
00:38:02,470 --> 00:38:00,880
incomplete but that it requires

1077
00:38:04,390 --> 00:38:02,480
consciousness in some way in order to

1078
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:04,400
modulate it above that bound

1079
00:38:08,550 --> 00:38:06,560
so we thought okay

1080
00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:08,560
experimentally it's interesting but if

1081
00:38:13,030 --> 00:38:10,240
it worked it would be theoretically

1082
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:13,040
extremely important

1083
00:38:16,790 --> 00:38:15,280
so we were not able to push it above the

1084
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:16,800
cyrus and bound

1085
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:18,720
and we think uh one of the reasons is

1086
00:38:23,109 --> 00:38:20,160
maybe what we're dealing with is such a

1087
00:38:25,349 --> 00:38:23,119
small a weak effect from the mind that

1088
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:25,359
it wasn't able to do it

1089
00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:26,640
but the other thing is that the

1090
00:38:30,150 --> 00:38:28,560
apparatus that we were using

1091
00:38:31,750 --> 00:38:30,160
which is the commercial apparatus

1092
00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:31,760
anybody could buy it and it sits on your

1093
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:33,760
desktop

1094
00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:36,400
when you look at uh how far we would

1095
00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:37,920
have had to push it in order to go above

1096
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:39,920
the cyrels and bound it was somewhere

1097
00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:43,040
between six and seven sigma so a

1098
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:45,599
massively statistically strong effect

1099
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:48,640
and we never saw anything that strong so

1100
00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:50,560
we it simply the apparatus wasn't

1101
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:52,640
sensitive enough or we didn't try out

1102
00:38:55,750 --> 00:38:54,079
enough or something but we weren't able

1103
00:38:57,670 --> 00:38:55,760
to do it

1104
00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:57,680
in the description you just gave you're

1105
00:39:02,950 --> 00:39:00,480
dancing back and forth between the

1106
00:39:05,510 --> 00:39:02,960
woowoo aspect of this that people use to

1107
00:39:07,589 --> 00:39:05,520
just kind of dismiss it and then

1108
00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:07,599
the the hard science if you will like

1109
00:39:12,310 --> 00:39:09,440
the mathematics of it do you want to

1110
00:39:14,950 --> 00:39:12,320
speak to the fact that when you say

1111
00:39:17,109 --> 00:39:14,960
orthodox quantum physics

1112
00:39:21,430 --> 00:39:17,119
what that means to

1113
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:21,440
a scientist who is in that field

1114
00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:23,760
well a minority of scientists are

1115
00:39:27,030 --> 00:39:25,760
interested in what quantum mechanics

1116
00:39:28,870 --> 00:39:27,040
means

1117
00:39:31,109 --> 00:39:28,880
most people learning quantum mechanics

1118
00:39:32,710 --> 00:39:31,119
are doing it as a mechanic

1119
00:39:34,390 --> 00:39:32,720
right you learn certain tools certain

1120
00:39:35,589 --> 00:39:34,400
mathematical tools you turn the crank

1121
00:39:37,670 --> 00:39:35,599
and you're able to predict certain

1122
00:39:40,230 --> 00:39:37,680
things and it's extremely useful our

1123
00:39:42,230 --> 00:39:40,240
whole modern world is basically uses

1124
00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:42,240
quantum mechanics to make predictions

1125
00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:43,839
about how electronics work and a whole

1126
00:39:49,589 --> 00:39:46,400
bunch of other things

1127
00:39:52,230 --> 00:39:49,599
so only a minority typically people are

1128
00:39:53,589 --> 00:39:52,240
more philosophically oriented perhaps

1129
00:39:55,589 --> 00:39:53,599
are interested well what in the world

1130
00:39:58,069 --> 00:39:55,599
does this mean because quantum mechanics

1131
00:39:59,109 --> 00:39:58,079
after all is a purely mathematical

1132
00:40:02,150 --> 00:39:59,119
theory

1133
00:40:03,990 --> 00:40:02,160
it's it's just it's math in fact the the

1134
00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:04,000
there's one equation

1135
00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:05,520
which you can use to show all the

1136
00:40:08,069 --> 00:40:07,040
quantum mechanics it's not a long

1137
00:40:09,829 --> 00:40:08,079
equation

1138
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:09,839
it takes a lot to unpack it in order to

1139
00:40:14,470 --> 00:40:12,240
understand what it all means but

1140
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:14,480
or at least mathematically what it means

1141
00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:16,240
but what it then means in terms of

1142
00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:17,760
fundamentals in our understanding of

1143
00:40:21,270 --> 00:40:20,240
reality that is still a completely open

1144
00:40:23,670 --> 00:40:21,280
question

1145
00:40:25,510 --> 00:40:23,680
so one of the ways of seeing that is

1146
00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:25,520
every so often there's a survey taken

1147
00:40:30,150 --> 00:40:27,680
among physicists on their

1148
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:30,160
interpretation of quantum mechanics and

1149
00:40:33,270 --> 00:40:31,440
so they give a number of different

1150
00:40:35,589 --> 00:40:33,280
questions like do you imagine quantum

1151
00:40:37,589 --> 00:40:35,599
mechanics is this or this or this one of

1152
00:40:38,950 --> 00:40:37,599
the questions is about the role of the

1153
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:38,960
observer

1154
00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:41,680
which is about like does consciousness

1155
00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:43,200
really matter or not

1156
00:40:48,309 --> 00:40:45,599
well of the people answering the survey

1157
00:40:49,349 --> 00:40:48,319
22 percent said yeah it is fundamentally

1158
00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:49,359
important

1159
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:51,200
to understanding the nature of quantum

1160
00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:52,720
mechanics well these are professional

1161
00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:55,280
physicists who are working this problem

1162
00:40:59,190 --> 00:40:57,040
so it's a minority but it's not that

1163
00:41:01,190 --> 00:40:59,200
small of a minority one in five

1164
00:41:02,470 --> 00:41:01,200
physicists out there think yeah there's

1165
00:41:03,829 --> 00:41:02,480
something really important about

1166
00:41:06,309 --> 00:41:03,839
consciousness

1167
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:06,319
the vast majority of research that goes

1168
00:41:09,349 --> 00:41:07,920
on in quantum mechanics is not looking

1169
00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:09,359
at the fundamentals

1170
00:41:14,470 --> 00:41:11,200
in a sense that is what we are looking

1171
00:41:16,230 --> 00:41:14,480
at we want to see whether uh why were

1172
00:41:18,390 --> 00:41:16,240
all of these founders of quantum

1173
00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:18,400
mechanics who are idealists which is not

1174
00:41:21,750 --> 00:41:20,400
in favor very much within physics

1175
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:21,760
especially

1176
00:41:25,510 --> 00:41:23,280
why did how could they have come up with

1177
00:41:26,950 --> 00:41:25,520
something like this and yet hold the

1178
00:41:28,470 --> 00:41:26,960
belief that consciousness really was

1179
00:41:30,150 --> 00:41:28,480
fundamental do they know something we

1180
00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:30,160
don't know

1181
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:32,480
well it's it comes down to philosophical

1182
00:41:36,950 --> 00:41:35,040
preference in some case but nevertheless

1183
00:41:40,630 --> 00:41:36,960
it didn't stop them from revolutionizing

1184
00:41:42,950 --> 00:41:40,640
physics so okay let's give their ideas a

1185
00:41:46,150 --> 00:41:42,960
shot and see what happens

1186
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:46,160
okay super normal 2013

1187
00:41:50,550 --> 00:41:48,079
what's the story arc here and what's

1188
00:41:52,710 --> 00:41:50,560
going on in the lab

1189
00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:52,720
so after writing about the physics of

1190
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:53,599
this

1191
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:55,680
uh then people started saying yeah but

1192
00:42:00,870 --> 00:41:57,760
but still the physics doesn't yet

1193
00:42:02,150 --> 00:42:00,880
explain what's going on so

1194
00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:02,160
you know is there something wrong with

1195
00:42:06,710 --> 00:42:04,560
our worldview do we need some other way

1196
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:06,720
of looking at it and of course i already

1197
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:08,480
knew that the the founders of quantum

1198
00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:11,440
mechanics were idealist so i said well

1199
00:42:16,950 --> 00:42:13,839
let's look actually in two parts

1200
00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:16,960
at uh traditions that are not the

1201
00:42:21,829 --> 00:42:19,599
current tradition within science so

1202
00:42:24,069 --> 00:42:21,839
science rests upon the philosophical

1203
00:42:26,069 --> 00:42:24,079
assumptions of materialism everything is

1204
00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:26,079
made out of matter and energy and that's

1205
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:28,319
the end of it in which case your

1206
00:42:31,589 --> 00:42:29,760
your brain

1207
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:31,599
and you are the same

1208
00:42:35,829 --> 00:42:34,160
there's like consciousness for for i

1209
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:35,839
would say radical philosophers say that

1210
00:42:38,710 --> 00:42:37,280
there is no consciousness it's just an

1211
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:38,720
illusion that somehow

1212
00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:40,480
associated with something to do with

1213
00:42:43,990 --> 00:42:42,400
brain activity

1214
00:42:46,390 --> 00:42:44,000
and this is still a dogma within the

1215
00:42:48,710 --> 00:42:46,400
neurosciences the the consciousness

1216
00:42:50,950 --> 00:42:48,720
doesn't really do anything but it is an

1217
00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:50,960
emergent property of brain activity

1218
00:42:55,109 --> 00:42:52,800
they'll admit that because you have

1219
00:42:56,710 --> 00:42:55,119
close uh neural correlates of

1220
00:42:58,390 --> 00:42:56,720
consciousness showing the relationship

1221
00:43:00,390 --> 00:42:58,400
there

1222
00:43:01,910 --> 00:43:00,400
i look at that correlation as the same

1223
00:43:03,910 --> 00:43:01,920
way a statistician would and would say

1224
00:43:05,190 --> 00:43:03,920
well just because you have a correlation

1225
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:05,200
it doesn't tell you the direction of the

1226
00:43:07,829 --> 00:43:06,880
causation unless you have a really good

1227
00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:07,839
reason

1228
00:43:11,349 --> 00:43:09,839
to to think that you know the direction

1229
00:43:13,270 --> 00:43:11,359
of causation

1230
00:43:17,510 --> 00:43:13,280
so

1231
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:17,520
looking at eastern

1232
00:43:23,109 --> 00:43:20,720
esoteric traditions to say well the

1233
00:43:24,710 --> 00:43:23,119
modern way of viewing reality is

1234
00:43:27,109 --> 00:43:24,720
relatively new it's only a few hundred

1235
00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:27,119
years old this idea of materialism you

1236
00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:29,920
can find instances of materialism even

1237
00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:32,640
in eastern philosophy and you can find

1238
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:35,440
it everywhere but by by look

1239
00:43:42,230 --> 00:43:36,319
more

1240
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:42,240
esoteric traditions were all about

1241
00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:44,720
consciousness being fundamental

1242
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:47,839
and and so i used the uh the yoga sutras

1243
00:43:52,630 --> 00:43:50,000
of patanjali as a way of demonstrating

1244
00:43:55,030 --> 00:43:52,640
that something about 2000 years or more

1245
00:43:57,190 --> 00:43:55,040
before was the first written

1246
00:43:59,829 --> 00:43:57,200
account of what happens when you do

1247
00:44:01,750 --> 00:43:59,839
diligent meditative practice

1248
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:01,760
what happens well one of the things that

1249
00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:04,000
potentially wrote about was

1250
00:44:08,630 --> 00:44:06,480
this just happens and what is he talking

1251
00:44:10,870 --> 00:44:08,640
about 25 different kinds of psychic

1252
00:44:12,950 --> 00:44:10,880
abilities that come about as a result of

1253
00:44:14,870 --> 00:44:12,960
this discipline practice

1254
00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:14,880
so i use that as a as kind of a way of

1255
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:15,760
saying

1256
00:44:19,589 --> 00:44:17,200
potentially was writing about these

1257
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:19,599
superpowers a long time ago

1258
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:21,680
is there any reason for us today to take

1259
00:44:25,270 --> 00:44:23,760
any of that seriously

1260
00:44:27,030 --> 00:44:25,280
and so i systematically went through

1261
00:44:29,030 --> 00:44:27,040
each one of the of the cities these

1262
00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:29,040
special powers to say is there any

1263
00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:30,480
laboratory evidence suggesting that

1264
00:44:34,309 --> 00:44:32,240
meditation goes anything like this and

1265
00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:34,319
the short answer is yes

1266
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:37,119
in which case potentially also talks

1267
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:39,040
about things like levitation and the

1268
00:44:43,349 --> 00:44:41,040
visibility and other

1269
00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:43,359
like comic book effects

1270
00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:45,760
uh what about those well we don't know

1271
00:44:49,910 --> 00:44:47,599
we can't bring that into the lab and we

1272
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:49,920
don't never see that into the lab except

1273
00:44:54,710 --> 00:44:51,839
if he was right on these first

1274
00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:54,720
set of phenomena or was he just making

1275
00:44:59,349 --> 00:44:56,880
up the rest of it you know what that's a

1276
00:45:02,150 --> 00:44:59,359
kind of a weird way to write a book

1277
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:02,160
so i kind of suspect that these

1278
00:45:08,150 --> 00:45:05,920
super psychic effects like levitation

1279
00:45:09,750 --> 00:45:08,160
they might be real and when you look at

1280
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:09,760
the literature including contemporary

1281
00:45:13,589 --> 00:45:12,160
literature like in tibetan meditation

1282
00:45:15,430 --> 00:45:13,599
they will say yeah the cities are

1283
00:45:17,270 --> 00:45:15,440
definitely real but the people who can

1284
00:45:19,190 --> 00:45:17,280
do these advanced cities

1285
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:19,200
extremely rare

1286
00:45:22,630 --> 00:45:20,720
even among people who are lifelong

1287
00:45:25,030 --> 00:45:22,640
practitioners so it's not only the

1288
00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:25,040
practice there's some talent that seems

1289
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:27,200
to come into play that allows for these

1290
00:45:32,710 --> 00:45:30,000
super abilities to to exist

1291
00:45:35,589 --> 00:45:32,720
yeah you know yogananda the famous yogi

1292
00:45:37,510 --> 00:45:35,599
wrote autobiography of yogi hasn't had

1293
00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:37,520
an ashram it's right up the road for me

1294
00:45:40,790 --> 00:45:38,880
i go up there

1295
00:45:42,150 --> 00:45:40,800
look off to it and do yoga all the time

1296
00:45:43,349 --> 00:45:42,160
just because i like to do yoga and it's

1297
00:45:45,270 --> 00:45:43,359
a beautiful spot right there on the

1298
00:45:47,349 --> 00:45:45,280
beach you're overlooking the beach

1299
00:45:51,030 --> 00:45:47,359
but anyone who picks up that book and

1300
00:45:52,710 --> 00:45:51,040
reads the first 30 pages i mean

1301
00:45:53,910 --> 00:45:52,720
in the way that you're talking about it

1302
00:45:55,670 --> 00:45:53,920
he just talks about in a very

1303
00:45:57,829 --> 00:45:55,680
matter-of-fact way of you know hey this

1304
00:45:58,710 --> 00:45:57,839
is what happened to me this is my life

1305
00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:58,720
and then

1306
00:46:02,790 --> 00:46:00,880
my guru by located from here to there

1307
00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:02,800
and you know shape-shifted into you know

1308
00:46:07,349 --> 00:46:05,280
it's just he's not talking about it like

1309
00:46:08,470 --> 00:46:07,359
to shock you or anything he's just

1310
00:46:11,910 --> 00:46:08,480
saying

1311
00:46:13,829 --> 00:46:11,920
this is my life is my autobiography so

1312
00:46:15,829 --> 00:46:13,839
yeah i think it is interesting to look

1313
00:46:17,750 --> 00:46:15,839
at that culturally

1314
00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:17,760
was there any i know some of the lab

1315
00:46:23,670 --> 00:46:21,200
experiments overlap with this stuff but

1316
00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:23,680
was is there anything you would kind of

1317
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:27,520
pull out as experimentally

1318
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:30,240
super normal where you thought maybe one

1319
00:46:34,950 --> 00:46:32,800
extraordinary person you had in the lab

1320
00:46:36,470 --> 00:46:34,960
or anything like that because that

1321
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:36,480
that's even something to talk about you

1322
00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:39,119
know the super talented versus the

1323
00:46:43,510 --> 00:46:41,680
just person off the street offers

1324
00:46:47,109 --> 00:46:43,520
different insights as well as i've heard

1325
00:46:50,470 --> 00:46:47,119
you talk about but anything in that room

1326
00:46:52,710 --> 00:46:50,480
well are you talking about swami veda

1327
00:46:54,790 --> 00:46:52,720
sure if you want to go there i think i

1328
00:46:57,349 --> 00:46:54,800
might have mentioned about swami beta

1329
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:57,359
participating in an experiment

1330
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:59,920
um swami veda is part out of a himalayan

1331
00:47:02,150 --> 00:47:01,040
tradition

1332
00:47:03,829 --> 00:47:02,160
of

1333
00:47:05,750 --> 00:47:03,839
meditation

1334
00:47:08,069 --> 00:47:05,760
had been meditating since he was a child

1335
00:47:09,270 --> 00:47:08,079
so that when i met him maybe 70 years at

1336
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:09,280
that point

1337
00:47:14,069 --> 00:47:12,000
and part of his tradition was to develop

1338
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:14,079
or at least recognize the cities the

1339
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:15,680
cities would develop

1340
00:47:19,670 --> 00:47:17,520
and so this was one of my in fact the

1341
00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:19,680
very first experiment they did using a

1342
00:47:24,069 --> 00:47:22,079
an optical system to see if it had if

1343
00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:24,079
you can manipulate quantum properties in

1344
00:47:28,309 --> 00:47:26,800
it and i described it to him as what he

1345
00:47:30,549 --> 00:47:28,319
would do he would sit outside her

1346
00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:30,559
shielded room and then mentally do

1347
00:47:35,109 --> 00:47:33,200
something to a light beam inside the

1348
00:47:36,630 --> 00:47:35,119
shielded room

1349
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:36,640
and so

1350
00:47:40,870 --> 00:47:38,240
he didn't know if he'd be able to do

1351
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:40,880
that or not but he's certainly willing

1352
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:41,920
to try

1353
00:47:47,109 --> 00:47:44,800
so he sat down outside the the lab or

1354
00:47:48,790 --> 00:47:47,119
outside our shielded room

1355
00:47:51,349 --> 00:47:48,800
and then in one minute segments i would

1356
00:47:54,470 --> 00:47:51,359
tell him okay now put your mind in that

1357
00:47:56,950 --> 00:47:54,480
beam like send it in the beam over there

1358
00:47:59,270 --> 00:47:56,960
or not withdraw it and relax so one

1359
00:48:00,630 --> 00:47:59,280
minute every minute we do that

1360
00:48:01,829 --> 00:48:00,640
well about halfway through the

1361
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:01,839
experiment

1362
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:03,920
uh i mentally

1363
00:48:09,190 --> 00:48:06,960
lost it like i kind of for a moment i

1364
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:09,200
forgot what we were doing i didn't know

1365
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:11,440
like what what is happening here

1366
00:48:16,230 --> 00:48:13,760
and then i brought myself back somehow

1367
00:48:18,309 --> 00:48:16,240
and kept going with the experiment

1368
00:48:19,589 --> 00:48:18,319
so later when we analyzed the data we

1369
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:19,599
found that about halfway through the

1370
00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:21,440
experiment we started to get a really

1371
00:48:25,190 --> 00:48:23,680
big result like exactly the kind of

1372
00:48:27,430 --> 00:48:25,200
thing i was hoping we would get it was

1373
00:48:28,309 --> 00:48:27,440
as though he was able to block a light

1374
00:48:30,309 --> 00:48:28,319
beam

1375
00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:30,319
to put it in simple terms

1376
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:32,000
so i was talking about this to the two

1377
00:48:36,069 --> 00:48:34,640
videographers we had filming the whole

1378
00:48:38,069 --> 00:48:36,079
thing from two different directions at

1379
00:48:40,630 --> 00:48:38,079
that time and they both gave me a kind

1380
00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:40,640
of startled look because they they had

1381
00:48:45,990 --> 00:48:43,119
compared notes among themselves and both

1382
00:48:48,069 --> 00:48:46,000
of them had mentally gone away

1383
00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:48,079
at the same time that i did this was

1384
00:48:51,670 --> 00:48:49,599
halfway through the experiment it's like

1385
00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:51,680
they kept filming but they they were

1386
00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:53,920
just disoriented or something for a

1387
00:48:58,069 --> 00:48:55,440
moment

1388
00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:58,079
so i asked swami beta about that later i

1389
00:49:01,510 --> 00:48:59,760
said well when you know when did you

1390
00:49:02,870 --> 00:49:01,520
think you actually were able to do this

1391
00:49:05,510 --> 00:49:02,880
because the data shows that you did

1392
00:49:06,870 --> 00:49:05,520
pretty good and so it took a while maybe

1393
00:49:09,270 --> 00:49:06,880
halfway through

1394
00:49:11,430 --> 00:49:09,280
he figured out what was necessary in

1395
00:49:13,430 --> 00:49:11,440
order to do this and it was a city it

1396
00:49:16,230 --> 00:49:13,440
was it's a mind matter interaction city

1397
00:49:18,069 --> 00:49:16,240
where you're controlling light itself

1398
00:49:20,230 --> 00:49:18,079
and they said well how did you how did

1399
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:20,240
you jump into the room there because all

1400
00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:22,480
you have is your mind to do that and he

1401
00:49:25,750 --> 00:49:24,720
gave it an interesting result her answer

1402
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:25,760
which was

1403
00:49:30,790 --> 00:49:28,240
uh i didn't go anywhere my mind didn't

1404
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:30,800
go anywhere it's all in here points

1405
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:32,240
pointing to his heart

1406
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:35,040
so the universe is inside from the point

1407
00:49:38,950 --> 00:49:37,280
of view of these cities it's not outside

1408
00:49:40,390 --> 00:49:38,960
that's in a sense why you're able to

1409
00:49:42,549 --> 00:49:40,400
control it because

1410
00:49:44,790 --> 00:49:42,559
you're you have much better control over

1411
00:49:46,549 --> 00:49:44,800
your what's going on inside

1412
00:49:48,870 --> 00:49:46,559
and we're talking about deep levels of

1413
00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:48,880
consciousness now which you can think of

1414
00:49:52,309 --> 00:49:50,400
as pointing to your heart it's not

1415
00:49:54,309 --> 00:49:52,319
really in your heart

1416
00:49:56,790 --> 00:49:54,319
but it's it's deep somehow and it's

1417
00:49:59,589 --> 00:49:56,800
there is no outside at that point

1418
00:50:02,470 --> 00:49:59,599
which is why i also like this quip from

1419
00:50:04,790 --> 00:50:02,480
ramana maharshi who was asked

1420
00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:04,800
after listening to the guru talked for a

1421
00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:07,119
while about uh how should people behave

1422
00:50:11,430 --> 00:50:09,280
so somebody asked him

1423
00:50:13,910 --> 00:50:11,440
how should we treat other people

1424
00:50:15,829 --> 00:50:13,920
and his response is there are no other

1425
00:50:17,829 --> 00:50:15,839
people

1426
00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:17,839
it's all completely connected and it's

1427
00:50:21,349 --> 00:50:19,359
all inside

1428
00:50:23,829 --> 00:50:21,359
so i thought that was quite interesting

1429
00:50:26,069 --> 00:50:23,839
so i i don't often have the opportunity

1430
00:50:27,030 --> 00:50:26,079
to to work with somebody who's such an

1431
00:50:29,270 --> 00:50:27,040
adept

1432
00:50:31,430 --> 00:50:29,280
and unfortunately swami veda has passed

1433
00:50:33,349 --> 00:50:31,440
away now so you can't do anymore at

1434
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:33,359
least not in this form

1435
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:35,680
um but when you do have the opportunity

1436
00:50:40,950 --> 00:50:37,440
to work with somebody who's been

1437
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:40,960
meditating a very long time they can do

1438
00:50:45,270 --> 00:50:42,960
not all of them because some of them are

1439
00:50:47,190 --> 00:50:45,280
not interested in developing the cities

1440
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:47,200
i mean some of them explicitly avoid

1441
00:50:51,430 --> 00:50:49,680
doing that like in the yogic tradition

1442
00:50:53,510 --> 00:50:51,440
the usual way a teacher would say about

1443
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:53,520
the cities is that something arises just

1444
00:50:57,190 --> 00:50:54,880
you know acknowledge it and just keep

1445
00:51:00,390 --> 00:50:57,200
going because that's not the end goal

1446
00:51:02,150 --> 00:51:00,400
okay uh this plays right into real magic

1447
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:02,160
2018

1448
00:51:07,349 --> 00:51:04,960
but explain the the leap here

1449
00:51:09,670 --> 00:51:07,359
well super normal is all about eastern

1450
00:51:12,069 --> 00:51:09,680
philosophical ideas and the eastern

1451
00:51:14,710 --> 00:51:12,079
esoteric traditions supernormal is the

1452
00:51:16,950 --> 00:51:14,720
western esoteric traditions so in the

1453
00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:16,960
east you have the cities special powers

1454
00:51:21,510 --> 00:51:18,720
on the west you have magic

1455
00:51:24,150 --> 00:51:21,520
they are essentially exactly the same

1456
00:51:27,589 --> 00:51:24,160
and even the methods of being able to

1457
00:51:30,069 --> 00:51:27,599
produce magical effects you can map onto

1458
00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:30,079
yogic methods directly it's all about

1459
00:51:34,710 --> 00:51:32,640
intention it's about deep states of mind

1460
00:51:37,109 --> 00:51:34,720
yogi would talk about samadhi a magician

1461
00:51:39,109 --> 00:51:37,119
will talk about gnosis

1462
00:51:40,710 --> 00:51:39,119
it's basically it's a parallel to each

1463
00:51:42,150 --> 00:51:40,720
other and of course this is not too

1464
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:42,160
surprising because if you go back far

1465
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:44,240
enough in history there was no east and

1466
00:51:48,829 --> 00:51:46,160
west per se

1467
00:51:51,270 --> 00:51:48,839
they all came out of one one source

1468
00:51:53,190 --> 00:51:51,280
zoroaster you know people plus or minus

1469
00:51:54,630 --> 00:51:53,200
a couple of centuries

1470
00:51:57,510 --> 00:51:54,640
so

1471
00:51:59,750 --> 00:51:57,520
well

1472
00:52:01,430 --> 00:51:59,760
i don't need to talk about yoga at all

1473
00:52:04,069 --> 00:52:01,440
in this case i can talk about magic

1474
00:52:05,270 --> 00:52:04,079
because of harry potter among other

1475
00:52:06,790 --> 00:52:05,280
things

1476
00:52:09,349 --> 00:52:06,800
people have learned enough about it

1477
00:52:13,510 --> 00:52:09,359
through stories and mythology in our

1478
00:52:15,430 --> 00:52:13,520
entertainment world to at least wonder

1479
00:52:17,270 --> 00:52:15,440
is that based on anything or is it pure

1480
00:52:19,030 --> 00:52:17,280
fantasy

1481
00:52:20,549 --> 00:52:19,040
well it appears that it is based on

1482
00:52:22,150 --> 00:52:20,559
something so just as they did for the

1483
00:52:24,309 --> 00:52:22,160
yogic cities and showing that there is

1484
00:52:27,270 --> 00:52:24,319
some science that can be brought to bear

1485
00:52:29,510 --> 00:52:27,280
for magical practices the same is true

1486
00:52:31,750 --> 00:52:29,520
some magical practices map on very very

1487
00:52:34,069 --> 00:52:31,760
nicely to the experimental work in

1488
00:52:35,910 --> 00:52:34,079
parapsychology

1489
00:52:37,510 --> 00:52:35,920
okay so here's the part that i think

1490
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:37,520
gets a little bit

1491
00:52:43,030 --> 00:52:40,480
tricky so you're at that level you're

1492
00:52:45,190 --> 00:52:43,040
pounding on this consciousness thing

1493
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:45,200
because it gets the philosophical

1494
00:52:49,829 --> 00:52:47,520
assumption underlying science and i've

1495
00:52:53,270 --> 00:52:49,839
heard you talk about this before

1496
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:53,280
in a very very eloquent way in a very

1497
00:52:57,109 --> 00:52:55,440
interesting way and because again it's

1498
00:52:59,349 --> 00:52:57,119
it's obvious

1499
00:53:01,270 --> 00:52:59,359
but it's not well understood or

1500
00:53:04,470 --> 00:53:01,280
processed and that's that

1501
00:53:05,829 --> 00:53:04,480
science is resting on philosophical

1502
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:05,839
assumptions

1503
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:07,440
the biggest one is that the world is out

1504
00:53:10,309 --> 00:53:09,119
there and we can measure it

1505
00:53:12,549 --> 00:53:10,319
which

1506
00:53:14,549 --> 00:53:12,559
you kind of shatter that one with every

1507
00:53:15,430 --> 00:53:14,559
experiment that you do

1508
00:53:17,190 --> 00:53:15,440
but there's a bunch of other

1509
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:17,200
philosophical assumptions

1510
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:18,640
kind of the main ones i mean if you

1511
00:53:23,190 --> 00:53:21,599
really kind of get to where people live

1512
00:53:25,109 --> 00:53:23,200
it's like

1513
00:53:26,549 --> 00:53:25,119
is there good and bad

1514
00:53:28,950 --> 00:53:26,559
is there god

1515
00:53:30,470 --> 00:53:28,960
what should i do with my life

1516
00:53:33,750 --> 00:53:30,480
um

1517
00:53:35,349 --> 00:53:33,760
why am i here kind of thing and

1518
00:53:37,430 --> 00:53:35,359
so

1519
00:53:38,870 --> 00:53:37,440
magic

1520
00:53:41,270 --> 00:53:38,880
kind of

1521
00:53:43,990 --> 00:53:41,280
answers that in a different way than i

1522
00:53:45,349 --> 00:53:44,000
think most people are used to having it

1523
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:45,359
answered

1524
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:46,960
what are your thoughts about some of

1525
00:53:50,710 --> 00:53:47,920
those

1526
00:53:52,390 --> 00:53:50,720
really deep philosophical questions

1527
00:53:55,030 --> 00:53:52,400
yeah you're talking about issues of

1528
00:53:58,309 --> 00:53:55,040
morality and ethics and

1529
00:54:01,349 --> 00:53:58,319
uh it's it might be related to all this

1530
00:54:04,309 --> 00:54:01,359
but i'm i'm not sure i would go there

1531
00:54:05,589 --> 00:54:04,319
except for with one proviso

1532
00:54:07,510 --> 00:54:05,599
and that is

1533
00:54:09,430 --> 00:54:07,520
uh if if you completely adopt

1534
00:54:12,150 --> 00:54:09,440
materialism as the

1535
00:54:14,549 --> 00:54:12,160
your way that you'll understand reality

1536
00:54:16,630 --> 00:54:14,559
then that leads to a picture of the

1537
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:16,640
world wiz which is nihilism

1538
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:18,720
which means there there is no ultimate

1539
00:54:22,309 --> 00:54:20,400
purpose to anything

1540
00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:22,319
uh when when your body dies you're dead

1541
00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:24,400
that's the end of it

1542
00:54:28,950 --> 00:54:25,839
and and is

1543
00:54:31,190 --> 00:54:28,960
collected into this equip of he who dies

1544
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:31,200
with the most toys wins

1545
00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:33,119
that's that gives rise to the modern

1546
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:34,800
world that we see today where

1547
00:54:39,190 --> 00:54:37,359
essentially business is extractive it is

1548
00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:39,200
it's taking things out of the natural

1549
00:54:42,470 --> 00:54:40,640
world turning into something else and

1550
00:54:44,549 --> 00:54:42,480
then selling it to you

1551
00:54:46,069 --> 00:54:44,559
well that's not sustainable

1552
00:54:48,630 --> 00:54:46,079
i mean maybe

1553
00:54:51,190 --> 00:54:48,640
wind power might be or solar power but

1554
00:54:52,630 --> 00:54:51,200
taking things out of the earth and in

1555
00:54:55,030 --> 00:54:52,640
assuming that it's going to go on

1556
00:54:56,870 --> 00:54:55,040
forever well that's not the case it

1557
00:54:59,190 --> 00:54:56,880
cannot go on forever and we're we're

1558
00:55:00,710 --> 00:54:59,200
beginning to reap the consequences of

1559
00:55:03,109 --> 00:55:00,720
that model especially when it comes to

1560
00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:03,119
things like like oil

1561
00:55:06,630 --> 00:55:04,160
so

1562
00:55:08,870 --> 00:55:06,640
we have like double whammies we have a

1563
00:55:10,549 --> 00:55:08,880
philosophy which is underlying a lot of

1564
00:55:12,069 --> 00:55:10,559
modern civilization

1565
00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:12,079
uh which says there's no purpose to

1566
00:55:15,910 --> 00:55:13,680
anything you don't really matter

1567
00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:15,920
ultimately nothing on earth matters

1568
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:18,480
and when students go through especially

1569
00:55:21,670 --> 00:55:19,440
a

1570
00:55:23,910 --> 00:55:21,680
course in science they will they will

1571
00:55:26,230 --> 00:55:23,920
absorb materialism without even being

1572
00:55:28,789 --> 00:55:26,240
taught that it is a philosophy

1573
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:28,799
rather than a set of assumptions and

1574
00:55:32,230 --> 00:55:30,319
assumptions by their very nature or

1575
00:55:33,990 --> 00:55:32,240
something you can't prove it's something

1576
00:55:35,829 --> 00:55:34,000
that you believe that this is a good

1577
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:35,839
answer to something

1578
00:55:40,390 --> 00:55:37,839
one of the reasons why it continues to

1579
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:40,400
be taught and used and a lot of people

1580
00:55:45,510 --> 00:55:42,960
defend it to their death

1581
00:55:46,309 --> 00:55:45,520
is because it's very effective

1582
00:55:49,910 --> 00:55:46,319
so

1583
00:55:52,069 --> 00:55:49,920
that is very effective materialism as a

1584
00:55:53,990 --> 00:55:52,079
doctrine within science is extremely

1585
00:55:55,990 --> 00:55:54,000
useful

1586
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:56,000
what i would say then though is

1587
00:55:59,589 --> 00:55:57,599
is it sufficient to account for

1588
00:56:01,510 --> 00:55:59,599
everything and the answer there from the

1589
00:56:04,230 --> 00:56:01,520
kind of work i do in lots of other areas

1590
00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:04,240
now no it is not able to explain

1591
00:56:08,950 --> 00:56:07,599
everything what that tells me is that

1592
00:56:10,630 --> 00:56:08,960
just as you see again and again

1593
00:56:12,390 --> 00:56:10,640
throughout the history of science that

1594
00:56:13,990 --> 00:56:12,400
at one point people said okay now we

1595
00:56:14,950 --> 00:56:14,000
really understand what's going on we got

1596
00:56:18,630 --> 00:56:14,960
it

1597
00:56:20,549 --> 00:56:18,640
idea new experiments and so okay what we

1598
00:56:21,430 --> 00:56:20,559
thought we knew was actually a special

1599
00:56:22,870 --> 00:56:21,440
case

1600
00:56:24,630 --> 00:56:22,880
and now we have a more expansive

1601
00:56:27,589 --> 00:56:24,640
understanding of reality

1602
00:56:29,910 --> 00:56:27,599
so i see materialism as a special case

1603
00:56:32,069 --> 00:56:29,920
that pertains to certain aspects limited

1604
00:56:33,589 --> 00:56:32,079
aspects of the world which is extremely

1605
00:56:35,430 --> 00:56:33,599
powerful and a very good way of

1606
00:56:38,230 --> 00:56:35,440
understanding it but it does not account

1607
00:56:40,230 --> 00:56:38,240
for everything so how do we expand it

1608
00:56:43,190 --> 00:56:40,240
i would say one way to expand it is to

1609
00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:43,200
assume that materialism is a subset of

1610
00:56:50,549 --> 00:56:44,880
idealism

1611
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:50,559
magic psychic stuff cities all of that

1612
00:56:56,230 --> 00:56:53,599
become easy to understand without doing

1613
00:56:58,069 --> 00:56:56,240
anything to materialism

1614
00:57:00,789 --> 00:56:58,079
so here's where i'm here's where i'm

1615
00:57:02,710 --> 00:57:00,799
kind of trying to go with that

1616
00:57:04,390 --> 00:57:02,720
your work

1617
00:57:08,150 --> 00:57:04,400
tell me if you agree with us or if you

1618
00:57:09,510 --> 00:57:08,160
don't but is not inconsistent with what

1619
00:57:11,990 --> 00:57:09,520
people are doing with the near-death

1620
00:57:14,390 --> 00:57:12,000
experience science the shared death

1621
00:57:16,309 --> 00:57:14,400
experience science which is really

1622
00:57:17,990 --> 00:57:16,319
interesting and it's

1623
00:57:20,230 --> 00:57:18,000
some people say it's anecdotal but it's

1624
00:57:21,430 --> 00:57:20,240
really not it's case work in the same

1625
00:57:23,109 --> 00:57:21,440
way that

1626
00:57:25,750 --> 00:57:23,119
medicine across the board is a

1627
00:57:26,470 --> 00:57:25,760
combination of case work and and as well

1628
00:57:29,270 --> 00:57:26,480
as

1629
00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:29,280
kind of exp experimental laboratory work

1630
00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:31,440
but

1631
00:57:34,390 --> 00:57:33,520
what you're saying what your findings

1632
00:57:41,349 --> 00:57:34,400
are

1633
00:57:42,789 --> 00:57:41,359
now let's go see what we might learn

1634
00:57:45,430 --> 00:57:42,799
about those extended consciousness

1635
00:57:48,150 --> 00:57:45,440
realms and i think you are making some

1636
00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:48,160
of those same leaps whether you like to

1637
00:57:52,150 --> 00:57:51,040
or not you are deciding that you won't

1638
00:57:54,390 --> 00:57:52,160
do

1639
00:57:55,349 --> 00:57:54,400
the spoon bending exercise on board a

1640
00:57:56,630 --> 00:57:55,359
plane

1641
00:57:58,390 --> 00:57:56,640
because you're like

1642
00:57:59,990 --> 00:57:58,400
is this maybe going to make the wings of

1643
00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:00,000
the plane

1644
00:58:06,150 --> 00:58:03,520
kind of go down so yes we we are in the

1645
00:58:07,990 --> 00:58:06,160
game of trying to figure out

1646
00:58:10,630 --> 00:58:08,000
what these ex what these extended

1647
00:58:11,829 --> 00:58:10,640
consciousness realms are and how we fit

1648
00:58:13,910 --> 00:58:11,839
into them

1649
00:58:16,309 --> 00:58:13,920
and i think like the near-death

1650
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:16,319
experience science and the reincarnation

1651
00:58:20,950 --> 00:58:17,760
science and the shared death experience

1652
00:58:22,710 --> 00:58:20,960
science not just towards

1653
00:58:24,390 --> 00:58:22,720
there is a moral imperative i mean

1654
00:58:25,829 --> 00:58:24,400
that's what they're just kind of saying

1655
00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:25,839
consistently

1656
00:58:29,109 --> 00:58:27,760
over and over again

1657
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:29,119
so

1658
00:58:32,710 --> 00:58:30,720
i'm just wondering

1659
00:58:36,630 --> 00:58:32,720
why

1660
00:58:38,470 --> 00:58:36,640
imperative

1661
00:58:41,270 --> 00:58:38,480
that's what's that's what's reported

1662
00:58:43,910 --> 00:58:41,280
like so if you start just compiling that

1663
00:58:45,910 --> 00:58:43,920
data the best you can and you go pin von

1664
00:58:46,870 --> 00:58:45,920
lammel and you go start

1665
00:58:48,789 --> 00:58:46,880
doing

1666
00:58:51,030 --> 00:58:48,799
medical surveys of people after they

1667
00:58:52,950 --> 00:58:51,040
recover from their cardiac arrest and

1668
00:58:54,470 --> 00:58:52,960
you ask them a series of questions and

1669
00:58:56,950 --> 00:58:54,480
you do it the most scientific way you

1670
00:58:59,510 --> 00:58:56,960
can in terms of good medical survey

1671
00:59:02,069 --> 00:58:59,520
that's what they report overwhelmingly

1672
00:59:04,390 --> 00:59:02,079
like 90 percent you know these off the

1673
00:59:07,430 --> 00:59:04,400
chart kind of things so that's just the

1674
00:59:10,789 --> 00:59:09,109
yeah so

1675
00:59:14,710 --> 00:59:10,799
uh

1676
00:59:16,470 --> 00:59:14,720
contest which you're aware of by the

1677
00:59:17,510 --> 00:59:16,480
bigelow

1678
00:59:19,349 --> 00:59:17,520
foundation

1679
00:59:22,710 --> 00:59:19,359
and so we we submitted uh one of the

1680
00:59:24,470 --> 00:59:22,720
essays and we got uh one of the prizes

1681
00:59:26,630 --> 00:59:24,480
and part of the upshot of what we were

1682
00:59:28,230 --> 00:59:26,640
talking about is if you look at the

1683
00:59:30,470 --> 00:59:28,240
eight or nine different classes of

1684
00:59:33,109 --> 00:59:30,480
evidence for survival

1685
00:59:34,470 --> 00:59:33,119
uh how how should we best interpret that

1686
00:59:36,230 --> 00:59:34,480
does it mean that they're actually the

1687
00:59:37,990 --> 00:59:36,240
consciousness and the body can be

1688
00:59:39,910 --> 00:59:38,000
separate and

1689
00:59:41,589 --> 00:59:39,920
once it's separate it retains enough

1690
00:59:43,750 --> 00:59:41,599
about your own memories and personality

1691
00:59:45,990 --> 00:59:43,760
and so on so that when a medium reports

1692
00:59:48,150 --> 00:59:46,000
talking to uncle bob it's like an

1693
00:59:49,990 --> 00:59:48,160
invisible form of uncle bob

1694
00:59:51,430 --> 00:59:50,000
so that i mean most people when they

1695
00:59:52,230 --> 00:59:51,440
think about survival they're thinking

1696
00:59:53,030 --> 00:59:52,240
about

1697
00:59:55,109 --> 00:59:53,040
you

1698
00:59:57,190 --> 00:59:55,119
survive in some other

1699
01:00:00,710 --> 00:59:57,200
world somehow and you're still connected

1700
01:00:02,150 --> 01:00:00,720
to this world that's that's sort of

1701
01:00:04,549 --> 01:00:02,160
a naive way of thinking about what

1702
01:00:06,630 --> 01:00:04,559
survival is thought about like the idea

1703
01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:06,640
of heaven you're exactly the same as now

1704
01:00:10,150 --> 01:00:08,160
except maybe you're younger and you

1705
01:00:11,750 --> 01:00:10,160
don't need to eat or something like that

1706
01:00:13,670 --> 01:00:11,760
so

1707
01:00:15,670 --> 01:00:13,680
what we're doing is is questioning there

1708
01:00:17,190 --> 01:00:15,680
first of all if you do a systematic

1709
01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:17,200
review of these various kinds of

1710
01:00:22,069 --> 01:00:19,440
evidence and you assign a letter grade

1711
01:00:23,829 --> 01:00:22,079
as to how good the evidence is from a

1712
01:00:25,910 --> 01:00:23,839
scientific perspective

1713
01:00:28,230 --> 01:00:25,920
none of them are a

1714
01:00:29,109 --> 01:00:28,240
about the best you get is a b b-plus

1715
01:00:32,870 --> 01:00:29,119
so

1716
01:00:35,510 --> 01:00:32,880
you know the whole package of these

1717
01:00:37,349 --> 01:00:35,520
stories are very impressive

1718
01:00:39,829 --> 01:00:37,359
uh but does it mean that there is

1719
01:00:41,829 --> 01:00:39,839
survival of any type

1720
01:00:43,670 --> 01:00:41,839
well we concluded that we we don't know

1721
01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:43,680
at this point and the main reason we

1722
01:00:47,349 --> 01:00:45,359
don't know is because we

1723
01:00:48,950 --> 01:00:47,359
all of the evidence a hundred percent of

1724
01:00:50,549 --> 01:00:48,960
the evidence for survival comes from the

1725
01:00:52,950 --> 01:00:50,559
living people

1726
01:00:55,829 --> 01:00:52,960
so this is and then the jargon is called

1727
01:00:57,750 --> 01:00:55,839
living agent psy it's it's it's the last

1728
01:01:00,470 --> 01:00:57,760
hypothesis that it's all based on

1729
01:01:02,390 --> 01:01:00,480
psychic stuff and i give very vigorous

1730
01:01:04,470 --> 01:01:02,400
debates going on from people saying this

1731
01:01:06,390 --> 01:01:04,480
couldn't possibly be psy because it's

1732
01:01:08,710 --> 01:01:06,400
way too complicated it's like it

1733
01:01:10,470 --> 01:01:08,720
requires some sort of departed entity or

1734
01:01:11,829 --> 01:01:10,480
something and i say well

1735
01:01:15,109 --> 01:01:11,839
that assumes that we know everything

1736
01:01:16,150 --> 01:01:15,119
about psy at this point well we don't we

1737
01:01:18,150 --> 01:01:16,160
we don't have any idea what the

1738
01:01:19,910 --> 01:01:18,160
limitations of psi is something could

1739
01:01:22,309 --> 01:01:19,920
look extremely complicated from one

1740
01:01:23,910 --> 01:01:22,319
perspective but from another if you're

1741
01:01:25,990 --> 01:01:23,920
really good at some kind of psychic

1742
01:01:28,069 --> 01:01:26,000
perception you can bypass all the

1743
01:01:29,030 --> 01:01:28,079
complexity in one shot

1744
01:01:31,910 --> 01:01:29,040
so

1745
01:01:33,910 --> 01:01:31,920
our argument was that the

1746
01:01:35,589 --> 01:01:33,920
figuring out the answer to the question

1747
01:01:37,349 --> 01:01:35,599
of is their survival is extremely

1748
01:01:38,789 --> 01:01:37,359
important for everyone we're all going

1749
01:01:40,870 --> 01:01:38,799
to encounter that

1750
01:01:43,270 --> 01:01:40,880
thing at some point

1751
01:01:45,430 --> 01:01:43,280
but can we answer it now given what we

1752
01:01:47,589 --> 01:01:45,440
know i would say the answer is no we

1753
01:01:49,589 --> 01:01:47,599
need to do a lot more research

1754
01:01:50,710 --> 01:01:49,599
sure a lot more research is always a

1755
01:01:52,309 --> 01:01:50,720
good answer

1756
01:01:54,829 --> 01:01:52,319
but the little judo that you're doing

1757
01:01:56,390 --> 01:01:54,839
that i never quite understand

1758
01:01:59,510 --> 01:01:56,400
experimentally

1759
01:02:01,349 --> 01:01:59,520
you've kind of falsified science you've

1760
01:02:03,029 --> 01:02:01,359
brought us to the edge to the limit of

1761
01:02:04,870 --> 01:02:03,039
it really in a way of saying well we

1762
01:02:05,990 --> 01:02:04,880
really can't measure any of this stuff

1763
01:02:07,910 --> 01:02:06,000
anyway

1764
01:02:09,750 --> 01:02:07,920
how do you respond to someone who says

1765
01:02:11,190 --> 01:02:09,760
well okay dean that's great you know

1766
01:02:13,829 --> 01:02:11,200
what you've just proven what i already

1767
01:02:15,430 --> 01:02:13,839
know is that there's demons in your room

1768
01:02:19,190 --> 01:02:15,440
that are controlling

1769
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:19,200
all these experiments and you can't say

1770
01:02:24,390 --> 01:02:21,520
gee i've falsified that that doesn't

1771
01:02:26,789 --> 01:02:24,400
happen at all and you can't explain

1772
01:02:28,789 --> 01:02:26,799
you know how the swami is different from

1773
01:02:31,270 --> 01:02:28,799
the average person i have a friend

1774
01:02:33,430 --> 01:02:31,280
shirley black uh

1775
01:02:35,829 --> 01:02:33,440
amazing person has three near-death

1776
01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:35,839
experiences always had a little bit of

1777
01:02:40,549 --> 01:02:38,240
this pk thing going on but it's really

1778
01:02:42,710 --> 01:02:40,559
woken up in her third near-death

1779
01:02:45,750 --> 01:02:42,720
experience and now she can do she can

1780
01:02:47,430 --> 01:02:45,760
spin a pinwheel under a class

1781
01:02:49,829 --> 01:02:47,440
and she goes i'll go to the lab and she

1782
01:02:51,829 --> 01:02:49,839
goes to three different labs major

1783
01:02:54,470 --> 01:02:51,839
university university of virginia uh

1784
01:02:57,029 --> 01:02:54,480
ryan institute duke uh in canada i mean

1785
01:02:59,109 --> 01:02:57,039
not like fake stuff she goes oh you want

1786
01:03:01,270 --> 01:02:59,119
to study me put the wheel down there

1787
01:03:03,270 --> 01:03:01,280
inside the glass and i can spin it so

1788
01:03:05,349 --> 01:03:03,280
the whole pk thing is interesting but

1789
01:03:08,069 --> 01:03:05,359
it's connected to this near-death

1790
01:03:08,789 --> 01:03:08,079
experience at least in her mind it is

1791
01:03:10,309 --> 01:03:08,799
and

1792
01:03:12,309 --> 01:03:10,319
but i think

1793
01:03:13,670 --> 01:03:12,319
yeah but your work

1794
01:03:17,349 --> 01:03:13,680
you can't

1795
01:03:19,190 --> 01:03:17,359
your work i think puts us past the edge

1796
01:03:22,150 --> 01:03:19,200
where we can kind of pull it back in and

1797
01:03:23,910 --> 01:03:22,160
say oh wait a minute we have science to

1798
01:03:26,069 --> 01:03:23,920
say this way or that way haven't you

1799
01:03:29,109 --> 01:03:26,079
just kind of thrown us in this quandary

1800
01:03:32,309 --> 01:03:29,119
of hey the world isn't out there and we

1801
01:03:35,190 --> 01:03:33,589
well i'm not quite sure what you mean by

1802
01:03:37,910 --> 01:03:35,200
we can't measure it because all of our

1803
01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:37,920
experiments do involve measurement

1804
01:03:40,390 --> 01:03:38,960
so

1805
01:03:42,630 --> 01:03:40,400
i mean maybe you don't know which

1806
01:03:44,230 --> 01:03:42,640
measure you don't know exactly you don't

1807
01:03:46,789 --> 01:03:44,240
know exactly what you're measuring

1808
01:03:49,430 --> 01:03:46,799
there's an asteroid neither neither is

1809
01:03:51,190 --> 01:03:49,440
that the case in most experiments

1810
01:03:53,029 --> 01:03:51,200
any measurement is an indirect

1811
01:03:54,710 --> 01:03:53,039
measurement of something it's a

1812
01:03:56,870 --> 01:03:54,720
reflection of something

1813
01:03:59,190 --> 01:03:56,880
so in the case of like say a gonswell

1814
01:04:01,829 --> 01:03:59,200
telepathy experiment we're getting in an

1815
01:04:04,390 --> 01:04:01,839
indirect measure of what people are

1816
01:04:05,910 --> 01:04:04,400
experiencing and the results of that

1817
01:04:07,270 --> 01:04:05,920
suggests that what's going on one

1818
01:04:09,349 --> 01:04:07,280
person's head can show up in the other

1819
01:04:10,630 --> 01:04:09,359
person's head so that's this is the

1820
01:04:14,390 --> 01:04:10,640
operational

1821
01:04:16,230 --> 01:04:14,400
of people's experiences in real life

1822
01:04:18,470 --> 01:04:16,240
about telepathy that somehow they're

1823
01:04:20,870 --> 01:04:18,480
sharing thoughts well in a laboratory we

1824
01:04:22,470 --> 01:04:20,880
can we can reproduce that

1825
01:04:24,069 --> 01:04:22,480
the question underneath it is well how

1826
01:04:25,029 --> 01:04:24,079
did the thoughts get from one person to

1827
01:04:27,109 --> 01:04:25,039
the other

1828
01:04:28,870 --> 01:04:27,119
at this point the best metaphor that we

1829
01:04:30,549 --> 01:04:28,880
can use is that there's something like

1830
01:04:34,470 --> 01:04:30,559
entanglement

1831
01:04:37,029 --> 01:04:34,480
least not as we see in our physics lab

1832
01:04:39,270 --> 01:04:37,039
but it's certainly like it

1833
01:04:40,870 --> 01:04:39,280
and but this this doesn't bother me very

1834
01:04:43,510 --> 01:04:40,880
much that we don't know exactly what's

1835
01:04:46,230 --> 01:04:43,520
going on because at the leading edge of

1836
01:04:47,829 --> 01:04:46,240
knowledge you never know what's going on

1837
01:04:49,510 --> 01:04:47,839
you're doing the best that you can to

1838
01:04:50,710 --> 01:04:49,520
ask questions and hopefully get an

1839
01:04:53,829 --> 01:04:50,720
answer back

1840
01:04:55,750 --> 01:04:53,839
that will address a hypothesis and most

1841
01:04:58,069 --> 01:04:55,760
hypothesis they're not about what is the

1842
01:05:00,549 --> 01:04:58,079
fundamentally thing going on

1843
01:05:02,309 --> 01:05:00,559
that's very difficult to do a

1844
01:05:03,430 --> 01:05:02,319
an experiment looking at fundamentals at

1845
01:05:04,630 --> 01:05:03,440
that level

1846
01:05:07,589 --> 01:05:04,640
most of the time you're looking at

1847
01:05:09,349 --> 01:05:07,599
various models of the way you imagine

1848
01:05:11,430 --> 01:05:09,359
things are going on and it's through

1849
01:05:12,950 --> 01:05:11,440
testing various models that you begin to

1850
01:05:14,630 --> 01:05:12,960
develop a picture

1851
01:05:16,390 --> 01:05:14,640
of what you think might be going on

1852
01:05:18,870 --> 01:05:16,400
fundamentally but ultimately we really

1853
01:05:21,670 --> 01:05:18,880
don't know and that that goes for the

1854
01:05:23,349 --> 01:05:21,680
fundamentals in most disciplines you as

1855
01:05:25,670 --> 01:05:23,359
we start asking those annoying why

1856
01:05:27,430 --> 01:05:25,680
questions again and again

1857
01:05:30,390 --> 01:05:27,440
but we don't know yet

1858
01:05:31,829 --> 01:05:30,400
no i i hear you and believe me i'm one

1859
01:05:33,510 --> 01:05:31,839
thousand percent

1860
01:05:36,150 --> 01:05:33,520
how far you've

1861
01:05:39,029 --> 01:05:36,160
kicked the can you know down the road

1862
01:05:39,990 --> 01:05:39,039
it's tremendous i i do think though you

1863
01:05:42,230 --> 01:05:40,000
know like

1864
01:05:44,230 --> 01:05:42,240
cherylie in her near-death experiences

1865
01:05:46,710 --> 01:05:44,240
if you go back and look at her

1866
01:05:48,309 --> 01:05:46,720
near-death experiences they're amazingly

1867
01:05:50,549 --> 01:05:48,319
consistent with

1868
01:05:51,510 --> 01:05:50,559
these ones that are collected under the

1869
01:05:53,990 --> 01:05:51,520
best

1870
01:05:55,510 --> 01:05:54,000
medically controlled survey conditions

1871
01:05:57,670 --> 01:05:55,520
and by which we base all this other

1872
01:05:59,589 --> 01:05:57,680
stuff and what they consistently tell us

1873
01:06:01,190 --> 01:05:59,599
as part of that which would kind of turn

1874
01:06:02,470 --> 01:06:01,200
this thing upside down

1875
01:06:04,789 --> 01:06:02,480
is that

1876
01:06:07,910 --> 01:06:04,799
our measurements are in this reality

1877
01:06:10,150 --> 01:06:07,920
which is fundamentally a lesser reality

1878
01:06:11,990 --> 01:06:10,160
and these extended consciousness rims

1879
01:06:13,349 --> 01:06:12,000
are kind of a greater reality so we're

1880
01:06:14,630 --> 01:06:13,359
kind of looking through the wrong end of

1881
01:06:16,789 --> 01:06:14,640
the telescope

1882
01:06:18,950 --> 01:06:16,799
these people are saying hey i in that

1883
01:06:20,950 --> 01:06:18,960
mode all questions are answered you know

1884
01:06:23,910 --> 01:06:20,960
and it's i get i know everything and

1885
01:06:25,670 --> 01:06:23,920
then i'm forced down into this yeah but

1886
01:06:27,589 --> 01:06:25,680
also keep in mind

1887
01:06:28,870 --> 01:06:27,599
keep in mind that just as with mystics

1888
01:06:30,710 --> 01:06:28,880
saying they say well the actual

1889
01:06:32,470 --> 01:06:30,720
experience is ineffable

1890
01:06:34,630 --> 01:06:32,480
therefore for me to talk about it i'm

1891
01:06:36,710 --> 01:06:34,640
going to have to squash some amazing

1892
01:06:39,349 --> 01:06:36,720
thing that happened to me into words

1893
01:06:41,109 --> 01:06:39,359
that can only provide a pale expression

1894
01:06:42,390 --> 01:06:41,119
of what actually happened and more

1895
01:06:43,829 --> 01:06:42,400
importantly

1896
01:06:45,990 --> 01:06:43,839
that it

1897
01:06:48,549 --> 01:06:46,000
the paper just came out within within

1898
01:06:50,789 --> 01:06:48,559
the past month showing uh an unusual

1899
01:06:52,789 --> 01:06:50,799
case where an epileptic i guess was

1900
01:06:54,309 --> 01:06:52,799
having their brain monitored

1901
01:06:56,390 --> 01:06:54,319
and they died

1902
01:06:58,230 --> 01:06:56,400
and and they were able and remained that

1903
01:07:00,069 --> 01:06:58,240
not a near-death experience an actual

1904
01:07:02,309 --> 01:07:00,079
death experience while they're measuring

1905
01:07:03,990 --> 01:07:02,319
the eeg and they found to their

1906
01:07:07,829 --> 01:07:04,000
amazement that there's activity going on

1907
01:07:10,309 --> 01:07:07,839
for a long time yeah i saw that

1908
01:07:12,390 --> 01:07:10,319
this immediately raises questions about

1909
01:07:15,750 --> 01:07:12,400
what is going on with an nde is it a

1910
01:07:17,910 --> 01:07:15,760
dream of the brain that that data isn't

1911
01:07:19,750 --> 01:07:17,920
really consistent with

1912
01:07:21,430 --> 01:07:19,760
uh explaining a way

1913
01:07:23,510 --> 01:07:21,440
which they've been trying to do forever

1914
01:07:26,549 --> 01:07:23,520
the near-death experience it's not in

1915
01:07:28,230 --> 01:07:26,559
terms of the the patterns the eeg

1916
01:07:31,190 --> 01:07:28,240
patterns that they're saying in the

1917
01:07:32,789 --> 01:07:31,200
delta gamma range that it doesn't really

1918
01:07:35,270 --> 01:07:32,799
match that way and it really doesn't

1919
01:07:36,710 --> 01:07:35,280
match uh from a time perspective either

1920
01:07:39,029 --> 01:07:36,720
and people who report the near-death

1921
01:07:41,270 --> 01:07:39,039
experience a lot of times it's like

1922
01:07:44,069 --> 01:07:41,280
this one woman who i had on the show you

1923
01:07:46,390 --> 01:07:44,079
know she's like boom i got stabbed and

1924
01:07:48,470 --> 01:07:46,400
immediately i'm outside my body i'm not

1925
01:07:49,990 --> 01:07:48,480
dead but i see the whole thing go to the

1926
01:07:51,829 --> 01:07:50,000
ant i see the ambulance go to the

1927
01:07:53,510 --> 01:07:51,839
hospital i see all this stuff going

1928
01:07:55,190 --> 01:07:53,520
which is consistent with all these and

1929
01:07:57,750 --> 01:07:55,200
then i leave my body and then i have

1930
01:07:59,990 --> 01:07:57,760
this near-death experience so again if

1931
01:08:02,470 --> 01:08:00,000
we were going to take that tiny little

1932
01:08:06,230 --> 01:08:02,480
window that we get sometimes with uh

1933
01:08:09,349 --> 01:08:06,240
some data like this eeg eeg data and we

1934
01:08:10,870 --> 01:08:09,359
would really try and honestly apply it

1935
01:08:11,990 --> 01:08:10,880
against the best

1936
01:08:13,270 --> 01:08:12,000
evidence we have in the near death

1937
01:08:15,349 --> 01:08:13,280
experience i don't think it holds up

1938
01:08:17,110 --> 01:08:15,359
well i want to be mindful of your time

1939
01:08:19,030 --> 01:08:17,120
so i want to bounce onto a couple other

1940
01:08:21,030 --> 01:08:19,040
things i want to see if we can hit in

1941
01:08:24,070 --> 01:08:21,040
the final minutes we have

1942
01:08:26,070 --> 01:08:24,080
edgar mitchell dr edgar mitchell but his

1943
01:08:28,309 --> 01:08:26,080
11th man or whatever sixth man walk on

1944
01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:28,319
the moon

1945
01:08:32,309 --> 01:08:29,520
sixth man

1946
01:08:34,390 --> 01:08:32,319
founder of ions passed just a few years

1947
01:08:36,630 --> 01:08:34,400
ago did you have

1948
01:08:39,110 --> 01:08:36,640
opportunity to interact with

1949
01:08:41,910 --> 01:08:39,120
dr mitchell much

1950
01:08:44,630 --> 01:08:41,920
yeah he would uh in his later years he

1951
01:08:46,870 --> 01:08:44,640
would come by for board meetings at ion

1952
01:08:48,229 --> 01:08:46,880
so yeah i had many opportunities to talk

1953
01:08:49,910 --> 01:08:48,239
to him

1954
01:08:53,189 --> 01:08:49,920
because the interesting thing i think

1955
01:08:55,590 --> 01:08:53,199
about his story is like he found ions

1956
01:08:58,950 --> 01:08:55,600
because he has this unity consciousness

1957
01:09:01,910 --> 01:08:58,960
experience he's flying back and he sees

1958
01:09:03,829 --> 01:09:01,920
the little blue marble that is earth and

1959
01:09:05,110 --> 01:09:03,839
he has the unity consciousness

1960
01:09:07,349 --> 01:09:05,120
experience

1961
01:09:09,990 --> 01:09:07,359
but later in life he says what i really

1962
01:09:12,070 --> 01:09:10,000
had was an e.t experience and he said

1963
01:09:14,950 --> 01:09:12,080
and he becomes very interested and he

1964
01:09:17,110 --> 01:09:14,960
says i know it to be true that you know

1965
01:09:19,030 --> 01:09:17,120
e.t is real contact has been going on

1966
01:09:21,269 --> 01:09:19,040
for a long time i know people in the

1967
01:09:23,030 --> 01:09:21,279
military i was sworn to secrecy on this

1968
01:09:24,950 --> 01:09:23,040
i upheld the secrecy i don't think it's

1969
01:09:27,030 --> 01:09:24,960
good to uphold the secrecy anymore now

1970
01:09:30,470 --> 01:09:27,040
i'm telling the truth have you ever

1971
01:09:32,390 --> 01:09:30,480
reflected on that in terms of

1972
01:09:34,789 --> 01:09:32,400
because because that's interesting how

1973
01:09:35,990 --> 01:09:34,799
we set up ions to say here's a safe

1974
01:09:39,430 --> 01:09:36,000
little way

1975
01:09:41,269 --> 01:09:39,440
to kind of partially explore

1976
01:09:42,550 --> 01:09:41,279
what i really know i mean that's one way

1977
01:09:44,709 --> 01:09:42,560
to read that that doesn't have to be

1978
01:09:48,789 --> 01:09:44,719
your way of reading it but what do you

1979
01:09:53,749 --> 01:09:51,510
well the ions um

1980
01:09:55,510 --> 01:09:53,759
mission as described for many years was

1981
01:09:57,510 --> 01:09:55,520
uh we explore the frontiers of

1982
01:09:59,830 --> 01:09:57,520
consciousness

1983
01:10:01,430 --> 01:09:59,840
which was in alignment with what edgar

1984
01:10:02,630 --> 01:10:01,440
was interested in after all he did have

1985
01:10:04,470 --> 01:10:02,640
that experience

1986
01:10:07,430 --> 01:10:04,480
he went on to have many other very

1987
01:10:10,070 --> 01:10:07,440
strange psychic experiences

1988
01:10:11,910 --> 01:10:10,080
he didn't talk about ufos and et's for a

1989
01:10:13,350 --> 01:10:11,920
very long time because he knew how

1990
01:10:14,630 --> 01:10:13,360
people respond

1991
01:10:16,470 --> 01:10:14,640
to to that and

1992
01:10:18,709 --> 01:10:16,480
already recognizing that there's a

1993
01:10:20,709 --> 01:10:18,719
credibility problem when you start

1994
01:10:22,070 --> 01:10:20,719
talking psychic stuff to

1995
01:10:23,270 --> 01:10:22,080
other people

1996
01:10:27,590 --> 01:10:23,280
so

1997
01:10:29,910 --> 01:10:27,600
we've tend to avoid the whole ufo et

1998
01:10:32,630 --> 01:10:29,920
thing mainly because it's like a binary

1999
01:10:34,149 --> 01:10:32,640
bomb that the you you combine two things

2000
01:10:36,149 --> 01:10:34,159
that are slightly explosive and you have

2001
01:10:39,350 --> 01:10:36,159
a major problem on your hands

2002
01:10:40,790 --> 01:10:39,360
so is is there a relationship well

2003
01:10:43,830 --> 01:10:40,800
maybe because

2004
01:10:46,709 --> 01:10:43,840
a lot of ufo sightings and then

2005
01:10:49,110 --> 01:10:46,719
ideas about contact with et

2006
01:10:51,030 --> 01:10:49,120
it's about consciousness apparently

2007
01:10:53,510 --> 01:10:51,040
because the communication typically is

2008
01:10:55,590 --> 01:10:53,520
telepathic and the et's can do things

2009
01:10:57,830 --> 01:10:55,600
that you shouldn't be able to do

2010
01:10:59,430 --> 01:10:57,840
like walk through walls and stuff

2011
01:11:04,149 --> 01:10:59,440
so

2012
01:11:06,070 --> 01:11:04,159
we'd start to pursue that at this point

2013
01:11:08,310 --> 01:11:06,080
i would guess probably not

2014
01:11:10,070 --> 01:11:08,320
and and the reason is that

2015
01:11:11,990 --> 01:11:10,080
much of what we do

2016
01:11:14,550 --> 01:11:12,000
from a scientific perspective requires

2017
01:11:15,990 --> 01:11:14,560
doing it in a laboratory environment

2018
01:11:18,630 --> 01:11:16,000
or at least under some kind of control

2019
01:11:21,270 --> 01:11:18,640
conditions and if we can find an et who

2020
01:11:23,270 --> 01:11:21,280
can come to the lab and do stuff we'd be

2021
01:11:24,790 --> 01:11:23,280
very happy to entertain that

2022
01:11:27,669 --> 01:11:24,800
but it's very similar to like somebody

2023
01:11:29,990 --> 01:11:27,679
who says well one time i i levitated

2024
01:11:31,590 --> 01:11:30,000
that's great can you do it now no i

2025
01:11:34,070 --> 01:11:31,600
can't do it anymore

2026
01:11:36,470 --> 01:11:34,080
sorry we you know we can't

2027
01:11:38,550 --> 01:11:36,480
what we want to do is advance through

2028
01:11:40,790 --> 01:11:38,560
science as best as we can and in the

2029
01:11:42,709 --> 01:11:40,800
process maybe slightly change some of

2030
01:11:44,790 --> 01:11:42,719
the ideas or the epistemology that's

2031
01:11:46,390 --> 01:11:44,800
used in science

2032
01:11:49,350 --> 01:11:46,400
but not to go off into what i would

2033
01:11:50,709 --> 01:11:49,360
consider left field where all you have

2034
01:11:52,390 --> 01:11:50,719
are stories

2035
01:11:54,229 --> 01:11:52,400
and yes there are similarities among the

2036
01:11:56,390 --> 01:11:54,239
stories there's some of them are very

2037
01:11:58,550 --> 01:11:56,400
compelling people have transformative

2038
01:12:00,630 --> 01:11:58,560
experiences as a result of the stories

2039
01:12:03,430 --> 01:12:00,640
or the experience that they have and

2040
01:12:05,110 --> 01:12:03,440
they come back different

2041
01:12:06,550 --> 01:12:05,120
and that's certainly valuable work

2042
01:12:09,189 --> 01:12:06,560
they're people who are studying these

2043
01:12:12,229 --> 01:12:09,199
sorts of things but it's at this point

2044
01:12:15,189 --> 01:12:12,239
not something that we want to look at

2045
01:12:17,910 --> 01:12:15,199
tell us about cognogenics

2046
01:12:19,189 --> 01:12:17,920
and particularly um

2047
01:12:21,669 --> 01:12:19,199
you know it relates back to the first

2048
01:12:24,470 --> 01:12:21,679
part of this interview in that the

2049
01:12:25,430 --> 01:12:24,480
origin story from this as i understand

2050
01:12:27,590 --> 01:12:25,440
it

2051
01:12:30,950 --> 01:12:27,600
comes directly out of

2052
01:12:32,470 --> 01:12:30,960
experimental work so tell us what it is

2053
01:12:34,709 --> 01:12:32,480
what it's about

2054
01:12:36,630 --> 01:12:34,719
and that link the origin story if you

2055
01:12:39,990 --> 01:12:36,640
would

2056
01:12:40,870 --> 01:12:40,000
i mean the origin of of county eugenics

2057
01:12:45,030 --> 01:12:40,880
yes

2058
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:45,040
mistaken it it did

2059
01:12:50,310 --> 01:12:47,679
it did seem to come out of this research

2060
01:12:51,510 --> 01:12:50,320
like who can do this stuff better than

2061
01:12:53,990 --> 01:12:51,520
other people

2062
01:12:56,709 --> 01:12:54,000
could there possibly be a genetic link

2063
01:12:59,189 --> 01:12:56,719
to that and then that

2064
01:13:01,350 --> 01:12:59,199
go ahead it's related to that but it's

2065
01:13:03,590 --> 01:13:01,360
not directly because this is the the

2066
01:13:06,149 --> 01:13:03,600
genetics of psychic ability or psychic

2067
01:13:08,310 --> 01:13:06,159
talent that is a project that ions

2068
01:13:09,750 --> 01:13:08,320
cognogenics is of course paying

2069
01:13:10,790 --> 01:13:09,760
attention to that since i was involved

2070
01:13:12,310 --> 01:13:10,800
in that too

2071
01:13:15,350 --> 01:13:12,320
but it's a

2072
01:13:19,189 --> 01:13:15,360
neurogenetic engineering company

2073
01:13:22,470 --> 01:13:19,199
where eventually we go to a place where

2074
01:13:25,110 --> 01:13:22,480
we might be able to enhance or

2075
01:13:26,630 --> 01:13:25,120
suppress psychic abilities genetically

2076
01:13:28,709 --> 01:13:26,640
and that we think it has something to do

2077
01:13:29,990 --> 01:13:28,719
with connections in the brain

2078
01:13:31,990 --> 01:13:30,000
so

2079
01:13:33,110 --> 01:13:32,000
in order to get there though we have to

2080
01:13:36,149 --> 01:13:33,120
start with something which is much

2081
01:13:38,070 --> 01:13:36,159
simpler so what we're doing initially is

2082
01:13:40,790 --> 01:13:38,080
uh looking at the mechanism of action

2083
01:13:42,709 --> 01:13:40,800
for ssri drugs selective serotonin

2084
01:13:47,270 --> 01:13:42,719
uptake inhibitors

2085
01:13:48,790 --> 01:13:47,280
things like prozac and zoloft and all of

2086
01:13:50,470 --> 01:13:48,800
the drugs out there that are used for

2087
01:13:51,669 --> 01:13:50,480
anxiety and depression and a few other

2088
01:13:56,149 --> 01:13:51,679
things

2089
01:13:58,390 --> 01:13:56,159
work in the brain

2090
01:14:00,470 --> 01:13:58,400
it involves a certain kind of neuronal

2091
01:14:02,310 --> 01:14:00,480
receptor that it's modulating it's

2092
01:14:04,070 --> 01:14:02,320
basically down regulating that receptor

2093
01:14:06,550 --> 01:14:04,080
you down regulate it if it's too hyper

2094
01:14:08,870 --> 01:14:06,560
excited you'll become calm and

2095
01:14:11,510 --> 01:14:08,880
depression also begins to lift

2096
01:14:14,390 --> 01:14:11,520
so we figured with modern genetic tools

2097
01:14:16,950 --> 01:14:14,400
especially crispr which is the the most

2098
01:14:19,590 --> 01:14:16,960
recent version of a genetic editing tool

2099
01:14:21,030 --> 01:14:19,600
you can very precisely target certain

2100
01:14:23,430 --> 01:14:21,040
neurons

2101
01:14:25,990 --> 01:14:23,440
and cause them to down regulate so we

2102
01:14:27,709 --> 01:14:26,000
kind of bypass all of the problems which

2103
01:14:30,630 --> 01:14:27,719
of which are huge problems of

2104
01:14:32,229 --> 01:14:30,640
contraindications in ssri drugs in most

2105
01:14:34,390 --> 01:14:32,239
pharma because that goes all the way

2106
01:14:35,910 --> 01:14:34,400
through your body and instead target

2107
01:14:37,430 --> 01:14:35,920
just the places in the brain that you

2108
01:14:39,510 --> 01:14:37,440
need to change

2109
01:14:42,229 --> 01:14:39,520
so we've done experiments now that we're

2110
01:14:43,830 --> 01:14:42,239
able to we provided proof of principle

2111
01:14:46,390 --> 01:14:43,840
that the method works

2112
01:14:47,910 --> 01:14:46,400
and our secret sauce in this is how do

2113
01:14:49,990 --> 01:14:47,920
you get it in the brain without putting

2114
01:14:51,110 --> 01:14:50,000
a six inch needle into your head

2115
01:14:52,709 --> 01:14:51,120
because that's how a lot of these

2116
01:14:54,630 --> 01:14:52,719
studies are being done

2117
01:14:56,790 --> 01:14:54,640
and and also not having to put in your

2118
01:14:59,350 --> 01:14:56,800
cerebral spinal fluid and not having to

2119
01:15:01,030 --> 01:14:59,360
do iv and all those other methods

2120
01:15:03,270 --> 01:15:01,040
we developed a method which will get it

2121
01:15:04,950 --> 01:15:03,280
into your head and go to the right spot

2122
01:15:07,830 --> 01:15:04,960
and we can show that it actually does

2123
01:15:10,709 --> 01:15:07,840
down regulate just like an ssri does but

2124
01:15:12,470 --> 01:15:10,719
at this point we think we in fact even

2125
01:15:13,830 --> 01:15:12,480
from the mouse studies we don't see any

2126
01:15:16,470 --> 01:15:13,840
side effects

2127
01:15:17,350 --> 01:15:16,480
so this this is part of

2128
01:15:42,550 --> 01:15:17,360
a

2129
01:15:44,550 --> 01:15:42,560
extremely effective

2130
01:15:47,110 --> 01:15:44,560
so again does this have anything to do

2131
01:15:49,110 --> 01:15:47,120
with psychic stuff not yet

2132
01:15:51,030 --> 01:15:49,120
but down the road we think maybe we'll

2133
01:15:52,390 --> 01:15:51,040
be able to use the platform that we've

2134
01:15:54,470 --> 01:15:52,400
created to

2135
01:15:55,830 --> 01:15:54,480
do some interesting things for psychic

2136
01:15:56,630 --> 01:15:55,840
talent

2137
01:15:59,430 --> 01:15:56,640
so

2138
01:16:01,750 --> 01:15:59,440
i'm not a luddite and i get that

2139
01:16:02,790 --> 01:16:01,760
what what you said is true this is going

2140
01:16:04,630 --> 01:16:02,800
to happen

2141
01:16:07,270 --> 01:16:04,640
someone's going to do it

2142
01:16:09,270 --> 01:16:07,280
get used to it and if we don't do it

2143
01:16:11,110 --> 01:16:09,280
somebody else will

2144
01:16:13,189 --> 01:16:11,120
why do you what's already happening

2145
01:16:13,910 --> 01:16:13,199
okay why do you want to be that guy i

2146
01:16:16,229 --> 01:16:13,920
mean

2147
01:16:19,189 --> 01:16:16,239
there are a lot of

2148
01:16:21,750 --> 01:16:19,199
legitimate concerns especially

2149
01:16:24,229 --> 01:16:21,760
right now we're on the heels of what

2150
01:16:25,510 --> 01:16:24,239
some scientists are calling

2151
01:16:27,830 --> 01:16:25,520
you know

2152
01:16:30,709 --> 01:16:27,840
the greatest medical

2153
01:16:32,790 --> 01:16:30,719
crime against humanity in history and

2154
01:16:35,750 --> 01:16:32,800
you know if you look at just

2155
01:16:38,550 --> 01:16:35,760
you know just the other day

2156
01:16:39,350 --> 01:16:38,560
who's the guy who presented in front of

2157
01:16:41,270 --> 01:16:39,360
uh

2158
01:16:43,110 --> 01:16:41,280
congress oh

2159
01:16:44,390 --> 01:16:43,120
senator ron johnson

2160
01:16:46,870 --> 01:16:44,400
and the

2161
01:16:50,709 --> 01:16:46,880
the effects of

2162
01:16:53,510 --> 01:16:50,719
the vaccine on the dod it's staggering

2163
01:16:55,830 --> 01:16:53,520
300 percent increase in

2164
01:17:03,030 --> 01:17:00,229
uh miscarriages 500 increase of this 600

2165
01:17:05,669 --> 01:17:03,040
we have no idea

2166
01:17:08,630 --> 01:17:05,679
what's going on with this gene therapy

2167
01:17:10,310 --> 01:17:08,640
bio-weapon kind of stuff

2168
01:17:13,669 --> 01:17:10,320
i don't

2169
01:17:16,950 --> 01:17:13,679
i know we have to push forward but

2170
01:17:19,030 --> 01:17:16,960
how do we do it in a way that and or do

2171
01:17:21,750 --> 01:17:19,040
we have to push forward what is what is

2172
01:17:23,990 --> 01:17:21,760
going on here and

2173
01:17:24,790 --> 01:17:24,000
what do you think is the path forward

2174
01:17:26,630 --> 01:17:24,800
for

2175
01:17:27,910 --> 01:17:26,640
the legitimate concerns that a lot of

2176
01:17:29,110 --> 01:17:27,920
people have

2177
01:17:32,390 --> 01:17:29,120
and

2178
01:17:36,310 --> 01:17:32,400
know

2179
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:40,310
every advancement carries risk

2180
01:17:45,910 --> 01:17:43,510
an enormous amount of medical problems

2181
01:17:47,830 --> 01:17:45,920
can be traced to genetic origins and

2182
01:17:50,310 --> 01:17:47,840
we're not talking about like single

2183
01:17:53,910 --> 01:17:50,320
genes that are producing a problem like

2184
01:17:55,750 --> 01:17:53,920
cystic fibrosis or sickle cell anemia

2185
01:17:57,830 --> 01:17:55,760
many are like all of the whole process

2186
01:17:59,990 --> 01:17:57,840
of neurodegeneration that leads to

2187
01:18:01,990 --> 01:18:00,000
dementia at least alzheimer's all that

2188
01:18:05,750 --> 01:18:02,000
these are very serious problems that

2189
01:18:07,270 --> 01:18:05,760
have so far not been solved by anything

2190
01:18:09,990 --> 01:18:07,280
so there is the the pharma that's

2191
01:18:12,950 --> 01:18:10,000
available for example for alzheimer's at

2192
01:18:14,470 --> 01:18:12,960
best slows it down a tiny little bit

2193
01:18:16,070 --> 01:18:14,480
but if you have alzheimer's you're going

2194
01:18:17,669 --> 01:18:16,080
to die from alzheimer's

2195
01:18:19,910 --> 01:18:17,679
so wouldn't it be nice if we figured out

2196
01:18:22,390 --> 01:18:19,920
a way to prevent that or treat it or

2197
01:18:24,550 --> 01:18:22,400
cure it even and not just that but all

2198
01:18:26,550 --> 01:18:24,560
that like every organ has its own set of

2199
01:18:28,390 --> 01:18:26,560
things that can go wrong

2200
01:18:30,310 --> 01:18:28,400
would it be better to figure out a way

2201
01:18:32,390 --> 01:18:30,320
to fix that or not

2202
01:18:34,229 --> 01:18:32,400
yes every new treatment every every new

2203
01:18:36,870 --> 01:18:34,239
advancement in science the development

2204
01:18:39,510 --> 01:18:36,880
of the atomic bomb was a risk as a

2205
01:18:41,910 --> 01:18:39,520
result of what mary curie was doing does

2206
01:18:42,870 --> 01:18:41,920
that mean it's better not to know or to

2207
01:18:45,110 --> 01:18:42,880
know

2208
01:18:46,709 --> 01:18:45,120
and and part of the scientific creed at

2209
01:18:48,709 --> 01:18:46,719
least the one that i follow is it's

2210
01:18:50,630 --> 01:18:48,719
always better to know because at least i

2211
01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:50,640
need to make decisions

2212
01:18:55,750 --> 01:18:53,120
i know how mrna works

2213
01:18:57,830 --> 01:18:55,760
and whether the is the data that he's

2214
01:19:00,310 --> 01:18:57,840
actually using something that other

2215
01:19:01,590 --> 01:19:00,320
scientists will agree to

2216
01:19:03,669 --> 01:19:01,600
i don't know

2217
01:19:05,669 --> 01:19:03,679
but you know that i would have to go

2218
01:19:09,110 --> 01:19:05,679
into this and look in detail this is

2219
01:19:11,590 --> 01:19:09,120
actually the way it's working

2220
01:19:13,350 --> 01:19:11,600
well well dean i mean they have they

2221
01:19:16,070 --> 01:19:13,360
they got their data from the defense

2222
01:19:18,390 --> 01:19:16,080
medical epidemiology database they got

2223
01:19:21,669 --> 01:19:18,400
it from the dod's own database it's not

2224
01:19:23,750 --> 01:19:21,679
like he cooked up these numbers

2225
01:19:25,669 --> 01:19:23,760
you know and then

2226
01:19:27,590 --> 01:19:25,679
and this is similar

2227
01:19:29,750 --> 01:19:27,600
this could be similar to the other

2228
01:19:30,790 --> 01:19:29,760
databases where people put in side

2229
01:19:32,709 --> 01:19:30,800
effects

2230
01:19:34,229 --> 01:19:32,719
that they say that they had as a result

2231
01:19:36,709 --> 01:19:34,239
of getting a vaccine

2232
01:19:37,910 --> 01:19:36,719
and that's just people reporting things

2233
01:19:39,350 --> 01:19:37,920
and you have no way of knowing what's

2234
01:19:41,430 --> 01:19:39,360
going on so i don't know whether this

2235
01:19:42,390 --> 01:19:41,440
database is vetted

2236
01:19:44,550 --> 01:19:42,400
maybe

2237
01:19:46,709 --> 01:19:44,560
it's the dod's veda base of like the

2238
01:19:49,430 --> 01:19:46,719
name doesn't mean anything but hold on

2239
01:19:51,189 --> 01:19:49,440
no when you talk about miscarriages

2240
01:19:53,189 --> 01:19:51,199
you know there can be under reporting

2241
01:19:54,709 --> 01:19:53,199
over reporting but you got to believe

2242
01:19:57,270 --> 01:19:54,719
they're kind of pretty

2243
01:19:58,870 --> 01:19:57,280
spot on with the number of miscarriages

2244
01:20:01,030 --> 01:19:58,880
and then what the other thing he has is

2245
01:20:03,430 --> 01:20:01,040
he has doctors that come forward and say

2246
01:20:05,270 --> 01:20:03,440
hey yeah it's consistent with what i'm

2247
01:20:08,550 --> 01:20:05,280
observing in working with soldiers

2248
01:20:10,709 --> 01:20:08,560
there's a lot more cases of all the

2249
01:20:14,229 --> 01:20:10,719
stuff that you guys are talking about so

2250
01:20:16,310 --> 01:20:14,239
the dod's response was got

2251
01:20:18,070 --> 01:20:16,320
part of the problem in this is

2252
01:20:19,750 --> 01:20:18,080
again we're dealing with correlations as

2253
01:20:22,629 --> 01:20:19,760
opposed to causation

2254
01:20:25,110 --> 01:20:22,639
so are are people more stressed because

2255
01:20:27,510 --> 01:20:25,120
of a pandemic yes would stress lead to

2256
01:20:30,229 --> 01:20:27,520
more miscarriages yes so is that the

2257
01:20:32,070 --> 01:20:30,239
causal thing or is the vaccine

2258
01:20:33,110 --> 01:20:32,080
or is it people who took the vaccine and

2259
01:20:34,950 --> 01:20:33,120
their friends are telling them you're

2260
01:20:37,590 --> 01:20:34,960
crazy for taking the vaccine which adds

2261
01:20:39,189 --> 01:20:37,600
more stress which leads to miscarriages

2262
01:20:42,229 --> 01:20:39,199
another what i'm trying to say here is

2263
01:20:44,149 --> 01:20:42,239
that unless i go and actually dive into

2264
01:20:46,550 --> 01:20:44,159
this data and figure out what is it

2265
01:20:48,149 --> 01:20:46,560
that's actually being said and what is

2266
01:20:49,830 --> 01:20:48,159
the nature of the data

2267
01:20:51,510 --> 01:20:49,840
so i mean we're

2268
01:20:53,430 --> 01:20:51,520
part of the this of science is being

2269
01:20:55,030 --> 01:20:53,440
skeptical about everything and in this

2270
01:20:56,550 --> 01:20:55,040
particular case there is so much

2271
01:20:57,510 --> 01:20:56,560
politization

2272
01:20:58,709 --> 01:20:57,520
holid

2273
01:21:00,149 --> 01:20:58,719
politics

2274
01:21:01,910 --> 01:21:00,159
involved in the way that people are

2275
01:21:04,709 --> 01:21:01,920
interpreting what's going on

2276
01:21:07,030 --> 01:21:04,719
that i i'm not i won't accept anything

2277
01:21:09,030 --> 01:21:07,040
that people say on a pro or con

2278
01:21:10,310 --> 01:21:09,040
right i mean i tend to to pay more

2279
01:21:12,229 --> 01:21:10,320
attention to things that end up in

2280
01:21:14,070 --> 01:21:12,239
science and nature

2281
01:21:15,510 --> 01:21:14,080
but something like this i would look at

2282
01:21:17,669 --> 01:21:15,520
where's the source that's telling me

2283
01:21:19,430 --> 01:21:17,679
this why is he saying this all of these

2284
01:21:21,990 --> 01:21:19,440
other questions because now we're

2285
01:21:23,110 --> 01:21:22,000
talking about sociopolitics and not just

2286
01:21:25,110 --> 01:21:23,120
science

2287
01:21:28,149 --> 01:21:25,120
okay i'll kind of wrap it up i just have

2288
01:21:29,910 --> 01:21:28,159
to add i am apolitical i'm also kind of

2289
01:21:31,669 --> 01:21:29,920
politically ignorant to be honest with

2290
01:21:33,830 --> 01:21:31,679
you i didn't even know who the hell

2291
01:21:35,110 --> 01:21:33,840
senator ron johnson is i don't pay any

2292
01:21:37,830 --> 01:21:35,120
attention to it it just looks like

2293
01:21:39,750 --> 01:21:37,840
theater to me what i'm interested in is

2294
01:21:42,149 --> 01:21:39,760
the science and what i'm interested in

2295
01:21:45,830 --> 01:21:42,159
is the parapolitical interface to

2296
01:21:49,030 --> 01:21:45,840
science and how it's just being

2297
01:21:50,790 --> 01:21:49,040
science isn't such a threat now and so

2298
01:21:53,910 --> 01:21:50,800
you know what the dod did the department

2299
01:21:55,990 --> 01:21:53,920
of defense did in order to help you dean

2300
01:21:58,149 --> 01:21:56,000
vet this stuff and figured out what the

2301
01:21:58,950 --> 01:21:58,159
truth is they just took the database

2302
01:22:00,390 --> 01:21:58,960
down

2303
01:22:02,470 --> 01:22:00,400
they're no longer going to give anyone

2304
01:22:04,390 --> 01:22:02,480
access to it and they said oh yeah that

2305
01:22:07,110 --> 01:22:04,400
none of that data is it's all kind of

2306
01:22:08,790 --> 01:22:07,120
flawed so we're going to take it down

2307
01:22:10,790 --> 01:22:08,800
and then we're going to fix it and then

2308
01:22:11,750 --> 01:22:10,800
we'll put it back up well i mean come on

2309
01:22:13,910 --> 01:22:11,760
we've

2310
01:22:15,430 --> 01:22:13,920
heard all those maybe that's true

2311
01:22:17,669 --> 01:22:15,440
maybe maybe it's true

2312
01:22:19,189 --> 01:22:17,679
maybe yeah it's true who knows is that

2313
01:22:21,669 --> 01:22:19,199
the very difference

2314
01:22:22,790 --> 01:22:21,679
that puts it down yeah

2315
01:22:24,629 --> 01:22:22,800
we don't know

2316
01:22:25,350 --> 01:22:24,639
yeah and so to

2317
01:22:27,430 --> 01:22:25,360
yeah

2318
01:22:28,870 --> 01:22:27,440
glitch in this

2319
01:22:30,470 --> 01:22:28,880
glitch in the system until somebody

2320
01:22:33,590 --> 01:22:30,480
points out that it's wrong and then we

2321
01:22:35,510 --> 01:22:33,600
find it out okay well so so again so on

2322
01:22:38,229 --> 01:22:35,520
cognogenics the reason why i think it's

2323
01:22:40,390 --> 01:22:38,239
very valuable is because again it's

2324
01:22:42,229 --> 01:22:40,400
better to know than not to know

2325
01:22:45,110 --> 01:22:42,239
it is also the case that i just this

2326
01:22:47,590 --> 01:22:45,120
morning saw a talk on this that

2327
01:22:49,510 --> 01:22:47,600
the ability to do genetic very precise

2328
01:22:52,070 --> 01:22:49,520
editing at this point is coming along

2329
01:22:54,950 --> 01:22:52,080
very fast and a lot of people who know a

2330
01:22:56,870 --> 01:22:54,960
lot about this i'm i'm kind of a a

2331
01:22:58,310 --> 01:22:56,880
newbie when it comes to this this kind

2332
01:22:59,990 --> 01:22:58,320
of topic

2333
01:23:01,669 --> 01:23:00,000
and it is amazing

2334
01:23:03,910 --> 01:23:01,679
what can be done

2335
01:23:06,310 --> 01:23:03,920
and so if it can if just like i mean

2336
01:23:07,590 --> 01:23:06,320
people will take some kind of normal off

2337
01:23:10,470 --> 01:23:07,600
the counter

2338
01:23:12,950 --> 01:23:10,480
or over-the-counter pharma drug and die

2339
01:23:15,030 --> 01:23:12,960
as a result because people are different

2340
01:23:17,030 --> 01:23:15,040
any medication involves risk

2341
01:23:18,629 --> 01:23:17,040
there certainly will be risk for some

2342
01:23:21,350 --> 01:23:18,639
people with

2343
01:23:23,510 --> 01:23:21,360
rna or dna edits

2344
01:23:25,430 --> 01:23:23,520
uh it's for those people it's very

2345
01:23:27,189 --> 01:23:25,440
unfortunate that something happened but

2346
01:23:28,870 --> 01:23:27,199
for the vast majority people it actually

2347
01:23:30,550 --> 01:23:28,880
will be very helpful

2348
01:23:33,510 --> 01:23:30,560
well you know the light at the end of

2349
01:23:35,590 --> 01:23:33,520
the tunnel for me is that i want you to

2350
01:23:38,390 --> 01:23:35,600
be one of the guys with their hand on

2351
01:23:40,629 --> 01:23:38,400
the switch because this is going to go

2352
01:23:41,990 --> 01:23:40,639
forward this is going to be part of our

2353
01:23:44,390 --> 01:23:42,000
future and as you keep pointing out

2354
01:23:46,070 --> 01:23:44,400
whenever i say that you say quit talking

2355
01:23:47,590 --> 01:23:46,080
about the future it's here now it's like

2356
01:23:49,830 --> 01:23:47,600
when i talk to people say talk about the

2357
01:23:52,070 --> 01:23:49,840
future of ai i like quit talking about

2358
01:23:54,709 --> 01:23:52,080
the future of ai you're interfacing with

2359
01:23:56,950 --> 01:23:54,719
ai all the time right now and it's just

2360
01:23:59,030 --> 01:23:56,960
going to get more and more so the the

2361
01:24:00,950 --> 01:23:59,040
fact that that you've established a

2362
01:24:04,229 --> 01:24:00,960
track record of

2363
01:24:06,149 --> 01:24:04,239
being careful about understanding the

2364
01:24:08,229 --> 01:24:06,159
the limits and opportunities of science

2365
01:24:10,149 --> 01:24:08,239
and how to do science right

2366
01:24:12,310 --> 01:24:10,159
and how to

2367
01:24:15,189 --> 01:24:12,320
maintain the the beauty of the

2368
01:24:18,870 --> 01:24:15,199
scientific method certainly gives me

2369
01:24:21,189 --> 01:24:18,880
hope this i gotta believe is occupying a

2370
01:24:23,590 --> 01:24:21,199
lot of your time and attention right now

2371
01:24:26,070 --> 01:24:23,600
cognogenics is a super

2372
01:24:27,510 --> 01:24:26,080
i mean how far it can go is amazing as

2373
01:24:29,430 --> 01:24:27,520
you've alluded to

2374
01:24:34,709 --> 01:24:29,440
what else are you

2375
01:24:37,030 --> 01:24:34,719
your main focus right now are you still

2376
01:24:39,669 --> 01:24:37,040
doing the ions kind of stuff and are you

2377
01:24:45,830 --> 01:24:43,990
i'm chronogenics is uh is not my day job

2378
01:24:47,830 --> 01:24:45,840
it's it's my night job

2379
01:24:49,750 --> 01:24:47,840
uh but the other thing i'm working on is

2380
01:24:52,950 --> 01:24:49,760
uh i've written a

2381
01:24:54,390 --> 01:24:52,960
a science fiction tv series with with a

2382
01:24:56,790 --> 01:24:54,400
writing partner

2383
01:24:59,110 --> 01:24:56,800
uh and we're shopping it around now

2384
01:25:00,709 --> 01:24:59,120
and the the idea is that uh just to the

2385
01:25:03,590 --> 01:25:00,719
re the same reason they would write a

2386
01:25:05,430 --> 01:25:03,600
popular book that narrative

2387
01:25:06,790 --> 01:25:05,440
narratives are what convince people

2388
01:25:08,390 --> 01:25:06,800
where we're used to sitting and

2389
01:25:10,790 --> 01:25:08,400
listening to stories

2390
01:25:13,430 --> 01:25:10,800
so i wrote a story which is designed to

2391
01:25:15,750 --> 01:25:13,440
be an antidote to

2392
01:25:18,629 --> 01:25:15,760
the way that psychic phenomena are

2393
01:25:20,310 --> 01:25:18,639
usually portrayed in entertainment it's

2394
01:25:21,910 --> 01:25:20,320
usually portrayed or linked with a

2395
01:25:24,790 --> 01:25:21,920
horror story

2396
01:25:27,510 --> 01:25:24,800
and that's not good for anybody i mean

2397
01:25:28,709 --> 01:25:27,520
it works as a story but i don't see it

2398
01:25:30,870 --> 01:25:28,719
that way at all

2399
01:25:33,350 --> 01:25:30,880
so the story that i wrote is actually

2400
01:25:35,350 --> 01:25:33,360
has a very positive spin on it and

2401
01:25:37,189 --> 01:25:35,360
challenges many of the tropes that are

2402
01:25:38,870 --> 01:25:37,199
used in science fiction

2403
01:25:41,590 --> 01:25:38,880
entertainment having to do with psychic

2404
01:25:44,629 --> 01:25:41,600
phenomena give us a little taste of how

2405
01:25:47,110 --> 01:25:44,639
that might play out story-wise in a very

2406
01:25:49,590 --> 01:25:47,120
snippet

2407
01:25:51,669 --> 01:25:49,600
well so think about the invasion of the

2408
01:25:54,470 --> 01:25:51,679
body snatchers and the borg and star

2409
01:25:56,629 --> 01:25:54,480
trek and virtually every other example

2410
01:25:58,390 --> 01:25:56,639
where you have a hive mind which is

2411
01:25:59,990 --> 01:25:58,400
presented as the most horrific thing

2412
01:26:02,149 --> 01:26:00,000
that you can possibly do

2413
01:26:04,470 --> 01:26:02,159
and we're saying in the story no it is

2414
01:26:06,870 --> 01:26:04,480
not only not horrific it is the best

2415
01:26:08,950 --> 01:26:06,880
possible thing that we can do to because

2416
01:26:10,629 --> 01:26:08,960
it pulls together something which is

2417
01:26:13,030 --> 01:26:10,639
already interconnected

2418
01:26:15,270 --> 01:26:13,040
but we be we sort of behave in an

2419
01:26:17,110 --> 01:26:15,280
illusory way that we're separate and

2420
01:26:19,350 --> 01:26:17,120
we're not really not connected it is

2421
01:26:20,790 --> 01:26:19,360
that disconnection that leads to the

2422
01:26:22,550 --> 01:26:20,800
kind of madness that we're currently

2423
01:26:24,550 --> 01:26:22,560
seeing in ukraine

2424
01:26:26,470 --> 01:26:24,560
right you have you know people and

2425
01:26:27,750 --> 01:26:26,480
literally shooting at each other

2426
01:26:29,830 --> 01:26:27,760
and not

2427
01:26:31,430 --> 01:26:29,840
appreciating the fact that at a deeper

2428
01:26:33,590 --> 01:26:31,440
level everything it really is

2429
01:26:35,750 --> 01:26:33,600
interconnected including us

2430
01:26:38,390 --> 01:26:35,760
so this is part of the the plot line in

2431
01:26:40,870 --> 01:26:38,400
the story where there's a tension then

2432
01:26:42,950 --> 01:26:40,880
between people who

2433
01:26:46,229 --> 01:26:42,960
who in this case take a genetic

2434
01:26:48,390 --> 01:26:46,239
enhancement and become a

2435
01:26:50,229 --> 01:26:48,400
a group mind essentially

2436
01:26:52,709 --> 01:26:50,239
everyone outside the group mind thinks

2437
01:26:56,149 --> 01:26:52,719
that this is scary we need to stop that

2438
01:26:57,990 --> 01:26:56,159
it's bad from inside this is the best

2439
01:26:59,990 --> 01:26:58,000
thing that ever happened this is like

2440
01:27:02,550 --> 01:27:00,000
the difference between

2441
01:27:04,390 --> 01:27:02,560
homo sapiens and homo superior

2442
01:27:06,950 --> 01:27:04,400
if we if we're going to survive we need

2443
01:27:08,950 --> 01:27:06,960
to advance as a species

2444
01:27:12,229 --> 01:27:08,960
and so the story is basically making the

2445
01:27:14,629 --> 01:27:12,239
case that homo sapiens is dying

2446
01:27:15,669 --> 01:27:14,639
and we have to we either die or we

2447
01:27:17,990 --> 01:27:15,679
evolve

2448
01:27:20,470 --> 01:27:18,000
well the evolution is going towards a

2449
01:27:22,790 --> 01:27:20,480
new kind of human and if it needs a

2450
01:27:23,830 --> 01:27:22,800
little genetic push to get there so be

2451
01:27:25,110 --> 01:27:23,840
it

2452
01:27:27,430 --> 01:27:25,120
you know an interesting connection to

2453
01:27:29,990 --> 01:27:27,440
that i don't know if you know whitley

2454
01:27:31,430 --> 01:27:30,000
strieber but i'm sure you know of him

2455
01:27:34,629 --> 01:27:31,440
probably the most

2456
01:27:40,149 --> 01:27:37,189
his contact experience his ongoing

2457
01:27:42,390 --> 01:27:40,159
contact experience includes

2458
01:27:44,470 --> 01:27:42,400
an understanding of the hive mind an

2459
01:27:46,390 --> 01:27:44,480
understanding of the others who are

2460
01:27:49,750 --> 01:27:46,400
visiting him

2461
01:27:51,110 --> 01:27:49,760
have a hive mind

2462
01:27:53,669 --> 01:27:51,120
orientation

2463
01:27:56,950 --> 01:27:53,679
worldview reality i i guess you'd really

2464
01:27:59,110 --> 01:27:56,960
have to say reality and that

2465
01:28:01,350 --> 01:27:59,120
in whitley's words and i'm not down with

2466
01:28:03,270 --> 01:28:01,360
everything whitley has to say but it is

2467
01:28:04,629 --> 01:28:03,280
somewhat of a barrier in terms of

2468
01:28:06,550 --> 01:28:04,639
understanding us

2469
01:28:07,430 --> 01:28:06,560
because once you're in that mindset

2470
01:28:10,070 --> 01:28:07,440
you're like

2471
01:28:11,750 --> 01:28:10,080
why would you think that's real and it

2472
01:28:12,950 --> 01:28:11,760
also has an interesting tie back doesn't

2473
01:28:15,910 --> 01:28:12,960
it to

2474
01:28:18,390 --> 01:28:15,920
the quote that you've used earlier in

2475
01:28:19,590 --> 01:28:18,400
that i don't think of others you know

2476
01:28:21,189 --> 01:28:19,600
what do you how do you get along with

2477
01:28:22,149 --> 01:28:21,199
that i don't think that there are no

2478
01:28:23,430 --> 01:28:22,159
others

2479
01:28:27,270 --> 01:28:23,440
yeah

2480
01:28:29,510 --> 01:28:27,280
we used in this story is

2481
01:28:31,270 --> 01:28:29,520
uh because initially people involved are

2482
01:28:33,510 --> 01:28:31,280
very resistant to it

2483
01:28:35,590 --> 01:28:33,520
but they it's that uh

2484
01:28:36,709 --> 01:28:35,600
it is as though you are a neuron in a

2485
01:28:38,790 --> 01:28:36,719
brain

2486
01:28:40,310 --> 01:28:38,800
well you as the neuron could have

2487
01:28:41,990 --> 01:28:40,320
certain capabilities and neurons are

2488
01:28:44,149 --> 01:28:42,000
pretty clever

2489
01:28:46,390 --> 01:28:44,159
but a single neuron would have no

2490
01:28:48,950 --> 01:28:46,400
concept of what a hundred billion

2491
01:28:49,910 --> 01:28:48,960
neurons with a trillion interconnections

2492
01:28:52,470 --> 01:28:49,920
can do

2493
01:28:54,229 --> 01:28:52,480
it's like totally different well the

2494
01:28:56,470 --> 01:28:54,239
same is true here if we really are

2495
01:28:57,669 --> 01:28:56,480
interconnected in in consciousness in

2496
01:29:00,070 --> 01:28:57,679
some way

2497
01:29:02,550 --> 01:29:00,080
we feel like we're an individual but as

2498
01:29:04,390 --> 01:29:02,560
a collective what we can do

2499
01:29:05,270 --> 01:29:04,400
not i mean what we can

2500
01:29:07,030 --> 01:29:05,280
the

2501
01:29:08,790 --> 01:29:07,040
take everything we know about being

2502
01:29:10,149 --> 01:29:08,800
human our cognition perception all the

2503
01:29:12,149 --> 01:29:10,159
rest of it and some little bits of

2504
01:29:14,629 --> 01:29:12,159
psychic phenomena

2505
01:29:16,310 --> 01:29:14,639
times 8 billion

2506
01:29:18,310 --> 01:29:16,320
that's that's the direction that the

2507
01:29:20,310 --> 01:29:18,320
story takes and then it explores the

2508
01:29:21,750 --> 01:29:20,320
notion of what would happen if that were

2509
01:29:24,709 --> 01:29:21,760
true

2510
01:29:27,910 --> 01:29:24,719
final question what do you think of

2511
01:29:29,510 --> 01:29:27,920
the fuss over the transhumanism agenda

2512
01:29:31,990 --> 01:29:29,520
what do they get right what do they get

2513
01:29:36,709 --> 01:29:34,390
i'm not deep enough into that to have a

2514
01:29:38,550 --> 01:29:36,719
good opinion i think there's also i need

2515
01:29:40,229 --> 01:29:38,560
to go on to it i have another meeting

2516
01:29:42,310 --> 01:29:40,239
coming up i get with dean you've been

2517
01:29:44,550 --> 01:29:42,320
super generous with your time and uh

2518
01:29:46,550 --> 01:29:44,560
super open yeah i always expect that you

2519
01:29:47,910 --> 01:29:46,560
guys just answer everything knock them

2520
01:29:49,910 --> 01:29:47,920
all out of the park

2521
01:29:51,590 --> 01:29:49,920
terrific having you on thanks so much

2522
01:29:52,790 --> 01:29:51,600
for being here

2523
01:29:54,470 --> 01:29:52,800
thank you

2524
01:29:56,790 --> 01:29:54,480
thanks again to dean raiden for joining

2525
01:29:58,790 --> 01:29:56,800
me today on skeptico the one question i

2526
01:30:01,430 --> 01:29:58,800
t up from this interview is

2527
01:30:03,830 --> 01:30:01,440
what do you make of the dna fiddling

2528
01:30:05,830 --> 01:30:03,840
that is coming down the road and in

2529
01:30:08,070 --> 01:30:05,840
particular what dean really brings into

2530
01:30:09,830 --> 01:30:08,080
focus here in this interview is

2531
01:30:11,270 --> 01:30:09,840
what does that mean for

2532
01:30:15,430 --> 01:30:11,280
consciousness

2533
01:30:17,189 --> 01:30:15,440
however you understand your interface to

2534
01:30:18,629 --> 01:30:17,199
consciousness whether it's a blob of

2535
01:30:21,030 --> 01:30:18,639
consciousness or a hierarchy of

2536
01:30:23,270 --> 01:30:21,040
consciousness what do you think there's

2537
01:30:25,189 --> 01:30:23,280
a lot to discuss here

2538
01:30:27,510 --> 01:30:25,199
and do stick around i have some more

2539
01:30:29,750 --> 01:30:27,520
pretty good interviews coming up so

2540
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:29,760
stay with me for all of that until next